Stelrad Group - Ideal Mexico Super CF55 - Venting Problem - Help!

[neilM1]

Long shot, hope someone can help.

We have just rented a flat with the above old 55K BTU boiler sited in the kitchen, I'm a little worried about it's venting, smells etc and hope someone can help.

Boiler is not enclosed, the kitchen is about 4m x 2m, and has a wooden door to the outside. The boiler is located on the inside wall and the flue via asbestos pipe goes up the chimney. In compliance the agents service the boiler once a year (I have seen cert) using their own engineer. There is also an aging gas oven in the area.

1. On ignition the boiler emits odour for about 30 secs, smells like emission rather than gas.

2. The only vent in the kitchen is a closeable circular 6" plastic vent embedded in the glass window pane, recently cleaned and reinstalled by agents fixer. It's of the type I have not seen for years, 2 pull cords to open and close, small manual fan on outside, if wind blows hard it turns!

The kitchen joins the 4M x 4M dining room, no vents. Each other living space has a similar plastic vent in one window. (Previous gas appliances removed in these areas).

My worry is yesterday my wife spent all day in the dining room, kitchen door open, heating on. At about 6pm she started complaining about headache, dizzyness and feeling sick, I had to lead her around in case she fell over.

I'm off to get co alarm today, but can anyone advise me? Agent is not really worried - he has his cert.

Many thanks,

Neil.

 

[Puddle]

Well the agent should be worried; the 'cert' is a gas safety inspection report that was done on a particular day, at a particular time, saying everything was safe and operating correctly at the time of inspection. The inspection only has to be done a minimum of once a year.
It dose not mean the gas appliances are safe for a year. and should be re-checked if you have cause for any concern and if you raise that concern with your agent and he does nothing and an incident occurs, then he will be in big trouble, cert or not
This is why you should put any concerns in writing, for future reference
With the c/f boilers you can never be to careful and you are right to get a carbon monoxide tester and place near this boiler,asap, any good landlord/agent would have already provided one, the window vent is very important for the safe operation of the boiler and should not be able to be closed, this needs correcting
Ring the agent up, explain the smells of gas, tell him to send someone to check boiler, also put it in writing, explain above to him, also, on the gas inspection report, which by law you should have a copy of, there should be the engineers name and contact number on it, ring him and explain, do not think he will be very happy with agents attitude. If no joy ring ‘gas safe’, explain to them issue, they will arrange inspection and contact agent
When some one does come round, make sure you are there and go through any concerns you have
Again ,these boilers are safe to use if all regulations concerning them are followed and are looked after, luckily most are coming towards the end of there lives
But treat them with respect, they are open to the room and can omit carbon monoxide

Just add
I have gone round rented houses and seen, bits of hobs missing, boilers with bottom casing missing with live wires dangling down after a repair, coals missing off fires, boiler flue terminals missing, cookers tipping forward because front legs broken off,ect,ect
I turn round and say what the hells this and a stupid agent or landlord will say
“Well I have a Landlords Gas Safety Report still in date”
I have even had one agent ring me and say the top burners of the hob are missing, think cleaners throw them away will it be ok, I still have valid gas safety report
How stupid are people, that why these inspections can do more harm than good,

I explain it’s a gas inspection, that’s all, like a mot,if three months after the mot ,your brakes fail, you do not continue driving around with no brakes for nine months until your next mot,you get them fixed, same with gas appliances
And how many of us go from one mot to another, not having a problem, the AA seem quite busy

Gas inspections do not pass or fail; they do not certify all will be well for a week, a month or a year
They just say on Thurs, 15th Oct, 2009 every thing was OK and list any defects or below standard issues
Any appliances that are dangerous will be cut off but that is not part of the inspection that is as a result of the inspection and meeting other regulations
Again I have cut appliances off for being dangerous, that would have passed a gas safety inspection a few months before

 

[neilM1]

Thank you for your reply. CO alarm in place and will request the agent send the engineer to re-check.

I think it is somewhat odd that the boiler was checked OK considering the state of the window vent (closable and loose in window), which also as it happens is behind a net curtain (now moved).
I also thought this old type of circular plastic vents had been written off years ago by better standards!

Thanks again.,

Neil.

 

[REDSAW]

thought the tennant had to have a cert in their name- not the landlords?.

 

[Puddle]

As far as ventilation is concerned for the boiler, it should now be low level,that is why window vents are not used now

The Tenants or Landlords name do not have to be on the gas cert but each must have a copy of the current gsr on the rented property
The inspection is concerned with the appliances and gas supply in the property not the landlord or tenant
The full address has to be on it and if a flat its location in the building,ie 133e should also have second floor rear flat added if being picky
The engineers address does not have to be on it,but a contact number or address has to be inserted to allow contact and his reg no,to allow verification of cert and engineer who carried out inspection

 

[REDSAW]

As far as ventilation is concerned for the boiler, it should now be low level,that is why window vents are not used now

The Tenants or Landlords name do not have to be on the gas cert but each must have a copy of the current gsr on the rented property
The inspection is concerned with the appliances and gas supply in the property not the landlord or tenant
The full address has to be on it and if a flat its location in the building,ie 133e should also have second floor rear flat added if being picky
The engineers address does not have to be on it,but a contact number or address has to be inserted to allow contact and his reg no,to allow verification of cert and engineer who carried out inspection

thats wot i mean, tennant should has that as an advisory the appliances have been checked, it should also be done for every time there is a new tennant into the property, otherwise you dont know what the old tennants have messed around with do you?. it is not a yearly requirement but a change of tennant one. if its rentall, unless short-term ie caravan.

 

[Puddle]

Well thats the big thing at the moment,The industry thinks it should be every year or change of tenant,this would meet the requirememts

that all gas appliances should be checked to make sure safe for tenants

If the same tenants do something that causes harm then it can be reasonably argued that it is their fault,but if new tenants move in under a currect gsr and there old tenants have made something dangerous and the new tenants are harmed,the responsibliity can not be with the new tenants,so landlord here we come
But there are two camps
The left say to do this you need to check yearly or change of tenants

The right say you do this by doing once a year as minimun legal requirements

Have not heard of a case in court yet,but as I mention in above post,agents and landlords let new tenants move in knowing things are wrong because they have a gsr done within a year,this will back fire on them and then it will be changed to yearly or change of occupency,but until then ,they argue
As said before it will not be the governing bodies or agents and landlords that make this move it will be the insurance and morgage companies who start to insist on it as at present ,as stated, they are leaving themselves wide open

 

[Bernie2]

The problem is as has been said. A certificate is only as good as the day you inspect the appliances. Unfortunately it seems sometimes it may be inadvertantly being used a proof of safety for the whole year.

Its a problem with the whole idea of safety certificates really.

But then how do you educate people to understand gas safety and to monitor appliances themselves?

Its a bit like risk assessment. How is an untrained person supposed to risk assess a building if they don't the dangers to look for? Can a person really tell toughened glass from ordinary glass and where it should be fitted? Can they tell a standard gas hose from an armored hose and where they should be fitted. Can they tell the difference in a gas fire flame pattern on a living coal fire?

So many things. Its easy to make safety laws its another thing getting them observed.

 

[smoggs03]

wont the cooker set his co alarm off?? my advice get it checked
the cooker will set it off!!!! i've known a pan of boiling cabbage set them off! theres a few food stuffs out there that do this. not necessarily the cooker

 

[newbie1]

co alarm will activate at about 100 ppm and cooker should if working correctly not let off anywhere near this
as regards ventilation it has to be a permanent source of ventilation and with no closure device or screens and would be 5cm2 for every kw over 7kw net input
the combustion vent can be high or low level
sounds like boiler is not clearing poc and even due to lack of air not burning correctly
at very least get an angineer very quickly to do a flue flow and spillage test as lack of oxygen will cause the boiler to emit co which is exactly the symptoms your wife is complaining off
as a guide when boiler fires up have a window in the room fully open this will give an indication if the flue is having trouble clearing poc