Termination into boundary .

[stani]

I've just been to look at a new property for our clients, our existing boiler an old Worcester combi, terminates right onto the boundary between next door, when the appliance was installed next doors wall were 3 metres away, however they have had an extension built, which now drops the boundary space to exactly 1 metre.
my cause for concern is the fact they have put a new back door directly opposite our terminal, it is now 1 metre from the terminal, surely building control should have highlighted this to the neighbours prior to building, I am trying to find any legislation to help. TB 016 seems to be they only document unless any body can help!

the building work is still ongoing.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Not the neighbours problem. The boiler should have been installed as though there was a structure on the boundary line. Your boiler has been wrong from day one.

 

[stani]

That's actually how I read it, just not sure what options I have, boiler is a non condense, and I think 15ish years old, was legislation applicable then?

 

[bigads28]

Boundary rules haven't changed much for as long as I can mind, apart from the new rules on plumes. I think it was 1.5m pointing toward a boundary, I can't quite remember.

It sounds like that back door opens into your garden lol!

 

[Destroyer2813]

Yeah old boiler is wrong you can't say sorry sir you can't build a extension on your own property as my boiler flue is there first

 

[wildcard]

If the boilers 15yo then they"ve had there moneys worth.I would talk them into a new bolier with plume kit.

 

[stani]

It's more the problem the back door is directly opposite, surely architect/building inspector should have picked this up.

 

[goz666]

If the boilers 15yo then they"ve had there moneys worth.I would talk them into a new bolier with plume kit.

Even with a plume kit, is it not still breaking the regs terminating within a metre from a boundary ??

 

[GrahamM]

You check MI's?
Of top of head some boilers can be 600mm to boundary wall as per MI's. If neighbour wants put door opposite then they are in wrong in my opinion.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes it was

 

[dmheat]

Must modern boilers MIs stipulate 600mm from a facing surface or boundary, or 300mm horizontally from boundary line. If your terminal is within your property, and there is a minimum of 600mm to the facing boundary line, then it's a spanner in the works. If you wall, and thus terminal in ON the boundary line, then yeah never fitted correctly.

 

[stani]

The wall is directly on boundary line.
It's not really a massive concern for us, previous installer, occupier, yes.
my concern is the open doorway directly opposite our terminal, surely somebody should have picked this up from the neighbours point I.e. Architect/building inspector

 

[diamondgas]

Worcester 24/28CDi, for example, states 600mm from a surface facing a terminal.... I'd check the original installation requirements personally. If it was installed on or across the boundary line and not 600mm away then the old appliance was not installed correctly and a new appliance flue cannot be fitted in the same place. IMO

 

[Reg Man]

Not necessarily, the BCO is not a gas engineer. My guess is the flue terminal position will have to be moved as it has never complied. If it kicks off some one may force the boiler to be turned off.

 

[GrahamM]

Right as per BS5440-1:
the flue termination if facing property boundary line must be 600mm away.
300mm from side of flue parallel to boundary line.
It is not permitted to have a building opening withing 2m of a flue termination facing directly opposite. So if your flue termination is for example 600mm from the property boundary they cannot put a door/window directly opposite unless it is 1.4m away from the boundary line.

 

[goz666]

GSIUR 1998 Regulation 27(5) 'No person shall install a flue other than in a safe location'

I won't write it all out but....

'The location needs to take into account any possible development's in neighbouring property, eg building extensions'

In effect if anyone puts flue at 600mm from the boundary, even though it's within MI's you could still end up in future with a boiler that was fit right at the time but isn't right now.

 

[solutions]

It's more the problem the back door is directly opposite, surely architect/building inspector should have picked this up.

No, why would they have to consider what is happening on the neighbours property especialy when there shouldnt be a flue terminating close enough to matter.
If anything was noted or if action is to be taken it will be to move the flue not the door.

 

[dmheat]

In this case as the flue is actually on a boundary wall, then 100%, it was never fitted to standard.

However, if it was 600mm+ from an opposing boundary and fitted to MIs, then whomever fits an opening into a wall directly opposite and within 2m of it is the one contravening the standards in my eyes.

 

[Aquazone]

Massively grey area, but I agree with Graham on this. If boiler is installed to MI, then you could still have an extension built next door and the opening put in another location and all would be satisfactory.

If it isn't to MI, then flue would need to be moved if anyone kicked off.

I disagree that BCO wouldn't know. They may not be Gas Safe but they should know BS.

 

[goz666]

Biggest laugh for me is this, rows and rows of terraced houses round here and lots with kitchen extensions built at the back, I couldn't begin to count how many flues are situated in next doors back yard....lol.

 

[stani]

Sorry lads just got back home,
if we take this further, and a CO incident occurs within the new extension, who would be to blame, my client because they have taken over a property with an existing boiler which has caused no concern, or the architect/BCO for not bringing to anyone's attention the fact there is a flue directly opposite the new opening.

 

[GrahamM]

Sorry lads just got back home,
if we take this further, and a CO incident occurs within the new extension, who would be to blame, my client because they have taken over a property with an existing boiler which has caused no concern, or the architect/BCO for not bringing to anyone's attention the fact there is a flue directly opposite the new opening.

Can you clarify here? Is the exisitng boilers flue less than 600mm to property boundary line?
Where exactly is neighboring extension in relation to boundary line?

 

[stani]

Yes the boiler flue is directly on the building boundary, therefore the flue is less than 600mm the new extension is 1 metre back from the boundary, the new opening for the doorway is directly inline with the flue.

 

[GrahamM]

Kind of a tough one this. Both party's do not comply with the regs.
Could the desingner of the extension not have taken this into account when puting a door directly opposite an existing boiler flue?
At the end of day the boiler should not be there from day one. But the fact it has been there for all this time without issue may have some bearing.
This may ensue in a bit a legal battle!

 

[stani]

Spoke to GSR, due to age of boiler, there was no minimum from the boundary it only came into being 2001/2 so it was fitted as per. The ball appears to be fairly and squarely with the builders/architect/BCO for not realising building regs do not allow an opening within the 2 metre rule.
it as gone to our solicitors to send a letter advising the occupiers.

 

[Reg Man]

GSR are talking out of their arse. They have got no one who knows what the previous standard states.

 

[Reg Man]

With a bit of digging I can probably find the pre- 2000 BS5440 standard and part J building regs. But in all of my career I have known it as a no, to terminate a flue across a boundary; which goes back to 1970's.

 

[stani]

With a bit of digging I can probably find the pre- 2000 BS5440 standard and part J building regs. But in all of my career I have known it as a no, to terminate a flue across a boundary; which goes back to 1970's.

If you could that would be good mate, he was quite adamant about it though. But we all know what that means.

 

[diamondgas]

Just been looking through some older appliance installation instructions and can't find any mention of "boundary's" ... They do mention the 600mm from a facing wall however and BS 5440 ... It'd be interesting to know when this rule came about

Raking my brains doesn't bring up any specific date but do tend to think it may be more recent an addition? By that I mean in the last 15 or so years?

 

[stani]

Think this is going to come down to one word 'Boundary' and when it was actually introduced into the regs.