This is why we will not endorse DIY gas work!

[Dotty]

Read the article especially HSE Inspectors view

A Lincolnshire plumber has been prosecuted for carrying out illegal gas work after a couple suffered severe burns in a major explosion at their home.

Daniel George Hickling, trading as DGH Plumbing and Heating, was hired by the couple to reduce the height of two redundant LPG gas pipes in an old kitchen, which was being converted into a living room at their Nettleton home.

After he left the property on 21 July 2011 the couple realised the gas supply hadn’t been switched back on so the householder went to the LPG tank in the garden and reset the valve to restore the supply. A short while later the couple smelled gas and went to investigate. When the householder was trying to find the source of the leak it ignited.

Lincolnshire Crown Court heard on 24 May that the explosion was so severe it blew out nearly all the ground floor windows and two walls of the property had to be supported to prevent them from collapsing.

The male occupant suffered severe burns to his hands, forearm and scalp and had to have a skin graft on his hands from which he is still recovering. His wife suffered serious burns to her lower legs and feet.
The couple had to live in a caravan for a year while the house was repaired.

A Health & Safety Executive (HSE) investigation into the incident found Hickling had never been registered with Gas Safe and was not qualified or competent to carry out the work. It is believed he damaged one of the pipes while excavating part of the floor around the pipe, puncturing a hole in it.

Hickling, 39, of Main Street, Howsham, admitted breaching Regulations 3(1), 3(3) and 5(3) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. He was given an 11-month prison sentence suspended for two years, ordered to carry out 300 hours of unpaid work and pay costs of £2,000.

HSE inspector David Butter said: "Anybody who carries out work on gas pipes or appliances without being on the Gas Safe Register is breaking the law. Daniel Hickling endangered the lives of this couple as soon as he began work. They are extremely lucky to have survived.”

 

[Kyle87]

A question for you?

Take a situation say as in this case where there were redundant pipes. Not dead legs for instance. Actual pipes that were once for gas but now have no connection either end. A complete redundant pipe run.

Do you have to be gas safe to remove it even though it is no longer gas pipe. It is just pipe without purpose?

I know what you'll say for safety's sake but regarding to actual law?

 

[Howsie]

If it doesn't carry gas then its not a gas pipe.

 

[Kyle87]

If it doesn't carry gas then its not a gas pipe.

Yea that's what common sense tells me. No doubt someone will say it was purpose built for gas so it still counts as a gas pipe.

 

[Dotty]

Yea that's what common sense tells me. No doubt someone will say it was purpose built for gas so it still counts as a gas pipe.

no. as long as it has been disconnected properly

 

[Kyle87]

Thanks for clearing it up boss!

 

[Hybrid]

If it's previously been connected to gas it's a gas pipe. Straight from GSR.
Until it carries gas it's just pipework regardless of it's intended use and design.

 

[Rickster123]

The punishment is no where near servere enough in my opinion. 2 grand fine?! I got a 450 quid fine for speeding! The law is an bum. It costs more than that to work as a qualified engineer. Really pee's me off. And I'm sure I do more than 300 hours unpaid work each year too!

 

[Kyle87]

If it's previously been connected to gas it's a gas pipe. Straight from GSR.
Until it carries gas it's just pipework regardless of it's intended use and design.

So if its had gas in it. You shouldn't touch it? Is that what your saying?

 

[Keefy]

So if its had gas in it. You shouldn't touch it? Is that what your saying?

If it's a pipe it's a pipe. If it's a pipe with water in it's a pipe with water in. If it's a pipe that used to carry gas but is no longer connected to a gas supply then it's a redundant pipe, meaning it's just a pipe. If it's just a pipe then do what you want with it.

 

[Kyle87]

If it's a pipe it's a pipe. If it's a pipe with water in it's a pipe with water in. If it's a pipe that used to carry gas but is no longer connected to a gas supply then it's a redundant pipe, meaning it's just a pipe. If it's just a pipe then do what you want with it.

Mate if I'm on a job and I can see both ends are not connected and it doesn't tee off anywhere than that pipe is mine. I just want to hear what people say about it

 

[Hybrid]

That's what Gas Safe is saying. If you can see the pipe along it's length and you're positive it's isolated I personally don't see why it's not just pipework.

With how much certainty a non-registered person can establish whether it carries gas I can't say. If they're certain it's redundant pipework, cut into it and find it's live they've just worked on a gas fitting and created an open end. As with all things we have to work to the lowest common denominator. I know plenty of people I wouldn't leave near pipework I even suspect is gas.

 

[Hybrid]

If it's a pipe it's a pipe. If it's a pipe with water in it's a pipe with water in. If it's a pipe that used to carry gas but is no longer connected to a gas supply then it's a redundant pipe, meaning it's just a pipe. If it's just a pipe then do what you want with it.

Definitely? Because GS have told me differently.
I have no problems being set right, but it's dangerous making definitive statements based on opinion, gut feeling and "common knowledge" which is what this thread is highlighting.

 

[Kyle87]

I suppose common sense has to prevail. Take each situation on its own merits.

 

[Keefy]

Definitely? Because GS have told me differently.
I have no problems being set right, but it's dangerous making definitive statements based on opinion, gut feeling and "common knowledge" which is what this thread is highlighting.

Well if it's not connected to a gas supply it's not a gas pipe.

 

[Hybrid]

Except when it's previously carried gas.
Like I say i'm happy to be proven wrong but i've been told as such by gas safe, it's not a matter of opinion and it's confusing for people reading this.

Maybe someone else could ring for guidance tomorrow? We all know they're not totally consistent.

 

[ManchesterGas]

If it has previously carried gas then it is a gas pipe. If it no longer carries gas then ut should be removed when disconnected, if not removed then it should be capped off at both ends.

 

[lame plumber]

good thing is he has been found guilty of carrying out illegal work, now the couple can sue the bum off him for damages through the civil courts which will hurt him some more, his insurers wont pay for sure.

 

[Keefy]

Let's say we had a house which was ready for demolition. The gas carcass has been disconnected from the meter and all gas appliances. Who can rip the scrap pipework out?

 

[Roger Welton]

If it has previously carried gas then it is a gas pipe. If it no longer carries gas then ut should be removed when disconnected, if not removed then it should be capped off at both ends.

I would add it should probably be purged of gas before being capped (preferably with nitrogen)

 

[Hybrid]

Let's say we had a house which was ready for demolition. The gas carcass has been disconnected from the meter and all gas appliances. Who can rip the scrap pipework out?

In that case if the gas carcass has been disconnected from the meter and wont/cant be reconnected or reused there's no possibility that removing the pipework could cause any kind of leak. It's a moot point in that case, all the safety implications are irrelevant.
Whoever gets there first I suppose

Also pipework isn't just pipework when you can't re-purpose it. You couldn't run water through an old gas carcass as it will have deposits of copper sulphide on the wall. Likewise I wouldn't connect a gas run to pipework containing calcium deposits.

 

[Keefy]

"Was hired to reduce the height of two redundant LPG gas pipes."

"It is believed he damaged one of the pipes while excavating part of the floor around the pipe, puncturing a hole in it."

So he reduced the height of two redundant gas pipes and accidently punctured a different pipe?

 

[Kyle87]

So he reduced the height of two redundant gas pipes and accidently punctured a different pipe?

I presume they were dead legs. Still connected but capped

 

[Reg Man]

The topic of this thread is about this prosecution. It really hacks me off, that this guy got away with such a punitive sentence, when he wilfully carried out gas work and caused so much injury, damage and heart break for the victims. On the other point, a gas fitting is something which is designed with the purpose or intention of conveying gas. So the great point everyone is putting over is, "when does a horse stop being a horse?".

 

[doitmyself]

good thing is he has been found guilty of carrying out illegal work, now the couple can sue the bum off him for damages through the civil courts which will hurt him some more, his insurers wont pay for sure.

I doubt if the elderly couple have the money to pursue him through the courts but, hopefully, they are well insured and their insurers will pursue him. However as he is probably a "man of straw", i.e no assets, even the insurers may give up.

Do you think he is even insured?

 

[Kyle87]

I doubt if the elderly couple have the money to pursue him through the courts but, hopefully, they are well insured and their insurers will pursue him. However as he is probably a "man of straw", i.e no assets, even the insurers may give up.

Do you think he is even insured?

Even if he is insured he won't be covered as he is doing illegal work

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

The £2,000 was contribution towards costs.
The "punishment" was the suspended prison sentence and hours of community service.

This is fairly typical for illegal gas work with an event like this.

I don't feel qualified to judge whether this is fair or too light a sentence.
BUT I do think is there is not enough of a deterrent to put illegal workers off doing gas work.

In the majority of cases - where there is no serious incident - there will be a period where illegals are just told to stop.
If they carry on there may be an enforcement notice.
If they still carry on they may be prosecuted with fines and costs often being less than £5k - often a lot less.

They could be doing tonnes of illegal work for years before they get to the stage of prosecution.

 

[oz-plumber]

The sad fact is that unless he has some personal assets, no one will get any money out of him. The insurance company and the property owners will be hung out to dry if this is the case. If he was working for a company then there might be some chance of suing the company. The only way to punish his idiot is to have a gaol sentence. If the couple had been killed there might be a chance of locking him up. Besides all that, it is the poor people who suffered and will continue to suffer - probably for the rest of their lives - due to employing someone, they thought competent, to do a gas alteration. Seriously all that had to be done after the alterations is test the gas line. 10 - 15 minutes extra on the job and the whole situation would have been avoided.