Toilets, do you get what you pay for?

[kraig]

Hi, I need to buy a toilet and I have a few questions.

I recently cracked my cistern after reinstalling my closed coupled toilet. My first question is do all cc toilets have standardised connections and if so are there any common issues or problems I am likely to run across if I just buy a replacement cistern?

Second question is that I am wondering if there is any real difference in performance between a £50 budget cc toilet from any of the major DIY stores or a £500 cc toilet?

And lastly I suppose if you do get better performance for you money is a new toilet likely to perform better then what I am guessing is a 10+ years old toilet?

Thanks for any advice

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi, I need to buy a toilet and I have a few questions.

Welcome

I recently cracked my cistern after reinstalling my closed coupled toilet. My first question is do all cc toilets have standardised connections and if so are there any common issues or problems I am likely to run across if I just buy a replacement cistern?

No, they don't all fit together, although many mismatched pairs can be "encouraged" to fit. Avoid the pain and buy pan and cistern as a pair. (Unless you know the make and model, in which case buying just the cistern makes perfect sense).

Second question is that I am wondering if there is any real difference in performance between a £50 budget cc toilet from any of the major DIY stores or a £500 cc toilet?

The big difference is between the £50 cheapo from the DIY store, and the £70 - £80 unit that you can get from your local independent plumbers merchant or bathroom showroom. The former will be the cheapest of the chinese cheapies. The latter will be good enough for a business that depends on repeat custom. After about £100, you are paying mostly for design and label, not quality.

And lastly I suppose if you do get better performance for you money is a new toilet likely to perform better then what I am guessing is a 10+ years old toilet?

I'm not sure what you mean by "performance". Older WCs had 9 litre cisterns which gave you more ooomph to clear the pan. Then it became 7.5lts, then 6, and many now are 4 litre or even 2.5ltr. They often perforrm poorly (in terms of clearing the bowl) when installed on marginal drainage systems.

 

[kraig]

Thanks for your input Ray.

By performance I do indeed mean ooomph to clear the pan (Stan Marsh has nothing on me). At least I wasn't imagining that the cisterns looked a lot smaller.

What are "marginal drainage systems" I googled the term and I all I got was information on glaciers? Are you saying that all modern toilets perform badly or just the 4ltr and 2.5ltr flavours?

My waste comes out turns 90^ then travels about a meter to the soil pipe. Fairly standard I thought but I don't know if it makes a difference.

Sorry if these all seem like stupid questions but my plumbing experience is no more than pushing pipes together and even that involved two trips to the store on discovery that 40mm doesn't always mean 40mm.

 

[stevetheplumber]

you can tell if a cisten is less than 6 litres there will be a stick stood next to it

 

[Masood]

you can tell if a cisten is less than 6 litres there will be a stick stood next to it

PMSL!

lcb

 

[Ray Stafford]

What are "marginal drainage systems"

There are lots of factors affecting the down-stream drainage from a pan. The fall, the length of pipe, any restrictions, blockages, tight bends etc.

Generally speaking the more "oomph" you can put behind the flush (oomph mainly being a factor of the volume and height of the cistern, and any restrictions between cistern and pan) the better it will overcome downstream restrictions.

My use of term "marginal" referred to a drainage layout that worked OK with a 9 litre, high level flush, perhaps gave intermittent problems with a 6 litre low level flush, and has now been converted to a 2.5 litre "water saver" set up, and the poor householder is having to flush 5 times to clear the pan (spot the irony on the watersaver)

 

[stevetheplumber]

we should go back to high level cistens if were going down below 6 l
funny thing was pointed out to me the other day children who have never seen a high level cisten still refer to flushing the loo as pulling the chain

 

[kraig]

I suggested a high level just because I like the look. The misses isn't going for it though, reminds her of school.

So I think I get the idea.

Get at least a 6 litre cistern, larger if I can.
Avoid the cheapest of the cheap and expect to pay about £100.
If I can find an independent bathroom store I should get a better deal then from a large chain ??? (not going to lie that last one seems counter intuitive)

 

[cr0ft]

Yes, avoid B&Q and Screwfix like the plague. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I've yet to put together/see one of their toilets that didn't need copious amounts of silicon sealant to stop the 'seals' from leaking inside the cistern.

Eastbrook Bathrooms do some fairly good sanitaryware and I know that they sell WCs for under £100.

 

[Ray Stafford]

If I can find an independent bathroom store I should get a better deal then from a large chain ??? (not going to lie that last one seems counter intuitive)

It depends on what you mean by a "better deal".

You will get a lower price from a large chain, almost certainly, and if everything goes well, you will have won. However, those cheap products are more likely to cause problems, and if they do, the large chains may not be the best at sorting them out.

If you find a good independent, who relies on reputation and repeat business rather than heavy advertising, you may pay a little more, but you are likely to get a better product, and in the (less likely) case where you have a problem, the independent is probably better placed to sort it out.

 

[oz-plumber]

Whatever toilet suite you choose, make sure it is a well known and, or fairly common brand.

Or bought from a reputable and well known Plumbing Merchant

At least that way, you are covered when in a few years time you may need some spare parts.
There's no greater frustration to the Plumber and homeowner when trying to source spare parts for a cistern that is no longer available and the brand is no longer sold.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Whatever toilet suite you choose, make sure it is a well known and, or fairly common brand.

Not easy in the UK these days OZ. Bathroom branding (outside of showers) has collapsed, and the retailers put together their own brands from various chinese and other far eastern sources. Some, (like Eastbook mentioned above) are excellent, but the trouble is that any one with a couple of hundred thousand quid and a warehouse can create a brand in a few months.

So it the reputation and track record of the reseller is probably better protection than the manufacturers name.

 

[oz-plumber]

Post edited to concur Ray.

 

[wetshoes]

I recently went to do a repair on a loo that was an import (American I think) and the push button was a sort of strange ovalish shape. Couldn't fit the push button in the hole so it now sits, looking a bit like a boobie, on top of the cistern. Fortunately it'd been repaired before the same way but goes to show that, although the toilet was fine the 'proper' parts are a beggar to get.

 

[stussy]

Yes, avoid B&Q and Screwfix like the plague. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I've yet to put together/see one of their toilets that didn't need copious amounts of silicon sealant to stop the 'seals' from leaking inside the cistern.

Eastbrook Bathrooms do some fairly good sanitaryware and I know that they sell WCs for under £100.

Maybe it's just me but I've never had a problem with the seals leaking and have never had to use silicon on them.....but that's not to say their quality is fantastic.

 

[cr0ft]

Interesting. It's been a fairly consistent problem for us on all S/F toilets. The rubber washers under the fixing bolts that go through the cistern and clamp onto the pan with wing nuts tend to leak small amounts of water.

This has even happened where customers have fitted their own toilets and we get called out to sort them out as they can't stop them leaking.

I flat out don't fit their rubbish but they keep trying to sell me bogs etc. It's a bit awkward, I don't really want to tell them their sanitaryware is rubbish and that's why I'm not buying any.