Urinal Auto siphon problem

[Dundeeplumber]

Hi folks,

I've fitted 3 new urinals supplied with cistern,auto siphon etc. Now when I first fast filled the system everything was ok,water flowed into all 3 urinals perfectly,now since that,the cistern just fills up & overflows outside.Ive changed the siphon & same again.Ive took the cistern off the wall & poured water down the sparge pipe & water comes from the urinals so it must be a problem with the siphon? I've seen it before when the sparge is too far up the siphon & it dribbles out but this isn't the case at all here,nothing is coming out.Ive slightly raised the cistern so the sparge pipe is no more than 20mm inside the siphon tail but still the same problem. When I fill it up over a sink everything works fine.

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Remove the sparge and use a bucket for a test

Sounds like maybe the sparge is creating too much resistance to get it started

You have used 22mm copper tube (min)?

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Remove the sparge and use a bucket for a test

Sounds like maybe the sparge is creating too much resistance to get it started

You have used 22mm copper tube (min)?

Thanks for the reply,its 28mm on the siphon,22mm connected to that then reducing to 15mm to each urinal. The customer ordered the whole package with sparge etc included. I'm guessing that using the bucket would be same result as when filling it over the sink?

Cheers again

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks for the reply,its 28mm on the siphon,22mm connected to that then reducing to 15mm to each urinal. The customer ordered the whole package with sparge etc included. I'm guessing that using the bucket would be same result as when filling it over the sink?

Cheers again

Sorry cut of before I finished

Leave the main sparge pipe in eg before it tees off

Then add one urinal then retest sounds like you have a restriction/ restrictor

Maybe a diverter to make sure equal flow to each pot etc

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Getting into the pipework isn't the easiest, behind a tiled wall you see,customer wanted the old panels out & adamant he wanted tiles..nightmare! I did test using flexis into buckets before tiling was done and everything deemed fine.Can always take a tile or 2 out if necessary.Would the fact that the supply pipes to both urinals on the outside dont have formed bends instead they came with compression?That's the only resistance I can think possible.

Cheers

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ends capped after you left tile addy / plaster in the pipes ?

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Ends capped after you left tile addy / plaster in the pipes ?

Yeah,and the pipes are behind plasterboard too so dont think there is any chance of anything getting in the pipes,plus when water is poured down the sparge its comes out at urinals.strange one it think.

 

[Shower Engineer]

Is the overflow too low down in the cistern?

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Is the overflow too low down in the cistern?

Thanks for the reply,No,the overflow is above the siphon level.

Cheers

 

[JCplumb]

Did you take the yellow stickers off the auto syphons(if they're the common brand)?
They disintegrate when wet and can cause problems.

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Did you take the yellow stickers off the auto syphons(if they're the common brand)?
They disintegrate when wet and can cause problems.

Thanks for the reply, yeah the yellow sticker was taken off on both original & replacement siphons. The merchants have a different style of cistern which uses a siphon with 1 1/4 inch outlet,would the bigger outlet make a difference?it will of course then be reduced to 22mm to tie in with sparge pipes.

 

[turnpin]

Auto syphons are available in different heights and outlet sizes I.e 11/4 x 7.....1x8 etc. Possibly to high for the system you have?.....regards Turnpin

 

[Dundeeplumber]

Auto syphons are available in different heights and outlet sizes I.e 11/4 x 7...1x8 etc. Possibly to high for the system you have?...regards Turnpin

Hi turnpin, thanks for the reply! I have tried both 7.5 & 6.25 heights which both have 1 inch outlet.My next plan is to use a 6.25 with a 1.25 inch outlet & reduce to 22mm for the sparge pipe.fingers crossed.

 

[Dundeeplumber]

That didn't work! I've now taken the urinals off the wall & gonna test the pipework into buckets rather than the urinals,if that works fine then maybe the spreaders could be the issue ie holes too small?if it doesnt work then looks like ink have to take tiles off & change the supply pipework to 22mm right up to the spreader.Nightmare.

 

[Dundeeplumber]

That didn't work! I've now taken the urinals off the wall & gonna test the pipework into buckets rather than the urinals,if that works fine then maybe the spreaders could be the issue ie holes too small?if it doesnt work then looks like ink have to take tiles off & change the supply pipework to 22mm right up to the spreader.Nightmare.

Picture of the pipework arrangement, filled the cistern with the flexis into buckets & everything worked fine.maybe a problem with the spreader?holes are very small but there is a bigger slot in the middle.