which rad connections to use

[steviep]

HI
Ive just bought a couple of wickes double radiators, and having just put one on the wall , wondered if to make the pipework less intrusive can these be connected with the flow and return to one side only
ie flow at top and return at bottom on one side or if it makes any difference would it be better to have flow coming in at bottom and return from top.
reason being the pipes will be running along top of skirting for a length rather than going under floor
if it would be poor in terms of efficiency, not a massive issue to connect normally

thanks

 

[Simon F]

stick to bottom opposite ends, if you keep pipe work tight under the radiator you don't see it

 

[Mbear]

stick to bottom opposite ends, if you keep pipe work tight under the radiator you don't see it

I agree with this, plus IMO it gives better circulation through the rad (better heat), also it looks far more natural and neater. Flow and returns entering the same side of a rad makes me think of old hospital heating

 

[SimonJohns]

To do same side entry you have to have special rads. Otherwise efficiency is severely decreased

 

[tamz]

No you don't and it doesn't effect the output much but you need to make sure the flow goes in the top or it won't heat properly. Best output is achieved from top bottom opposite ends.
To the op
Whatever floats your boat but it looks better bottom opposite end even if the pipe crosses the rad.

 

[Mbear]

No you don't and it doesn't effect the output much but you need to make sure the flow goes in the top or it won't heat properly. Best output is achieved from top bottom opposite ends.
To the op
Whatever floats your boat but it looks better bottom opposite end even if the pipe crosses the rad.

I strongly disagree with the 'top entry to the left and bottom exit to the right' to give best heat comment (if I'm reading ur post correctly). In my experience if it's plumbed in like this then the bottom quarter of rad panel below the flow entry position doesn't get a great heat at all. The water doesn't seem to circulate in this particular area and therefore gives a dull heat in comparison to the top and to the right hand side of rad

 

[tamz]

Your f&r need checking if the whole rad is not heating up. TBOE gives the highest output of any piping option. Look it up if you don't believe me.
It may not be so aesthetically pleasing but it does work better if piped correctly.

 

[Mbear]

Your f&r need checking if the whole rad is not heating up. TBOE gives the highest output of any piping option. Look it up if you don't believe me.
It may not be so aesthetically pleasing but it does work better if piped correctly.

I had this pipe setup on my lounge rad. I changed it to bottom flow, bottom return and the heat output is very noticeable. We're in a 2 bed flat, 5 rads, 24kw w/Bosch si 2 so no issues with balancing or sludge (spiritech fitted). It's that noticeable that she wants me to do the rest of the rads.

I don't doubt that what u say but in reality I've found bottom & bottom works better.

Just to be clear, are u saying for example 1 "top left trv entry/flow and bottom right lock shield /return" is best or 2 "top left entry and bottom left return" is best?

Ps my lounge rad was originally option 1

 

[tamz]

If the flow is into the top and the bottom is the return (this is crucial on either tboe or tbse) the rad will heat perfectly with tboe giving the greatest output. If the flow enters the bottom of the rad there will be cold spots as the water will take the easiest route.
TBOE ensures the water flows through the rad. BOE connections rely on gravity circulation (thermosyphon is the new word for it) to spread the heat as it naturally wants to pump straight across the bottom of the rad

 

[Mbear]

U put fwd a convincing argument.

I'd only add that custs have paid me to change piping from 'top left - bottom right' to 'bottom left - bottom right' and I have done it to my own radiator and been pleased with results As have the customers I mention.

To be honest, with the results ive had doing this conversion I certainly wouldn't advise against it. But different cases, different merits I suppose

 

[Mbear]

If the flow is into the top and the bottom is the return (this is crucial on either tboe or tbse) the rad will heat perfectly with tboe giving the greatest output. If the flow enters the bottom of the rad there will be cold spots as the water will take the easiest route.
TBOE ensures the water flows through the rad. BOE connections rely on gravity circulation (thermosyphon is the new word for it) to spread the heat as it naturally wants to pump straight across the bottom of the rad

I've dropped u a pm mate

 

[stevetheplumber]

if you read the small print on most radiator lists you will find a bit that says outputs calculated using top and bottom oposite ends pipework any other setup will require a correction factor to be appied
no one selling rads is going to use a method that will lower their outputs and i think their research and testing dept is slightly more advanced than your front room

 

[doitmyself]

if you read the small print on most radiator lists you will find a bit that says outputs calculated using top and bottom opposite ends pipework any other setup will require a correction factor to be applied.

Are you sure?

BS EN 442 specifies top, bottom, same end for testing radiators as this gives the maximum output. TBOE and BBOE give about 2% less output.

 

[steviep]

great replies thanks to all, will go with BOE

 

[solarCH]

In my experience if it's plumbed in like this then the bottom quarter of rad panel below the flow entry position doesn't get a great heat at all. The water doesn't seem to circulate in this particular area and therefore gives a dull heat in comparison to the top and to the right hand side of rad

In your experience does the temperature gradient (flow rate) affect this? If you reduce the flow to 'leave' 15 or 20 degrees of heat in the rad then I guess you can argue that the energy is there, its just distributed unevenly.

I suspect that the 5% gain for TBOE in Ferroli element based radiators is measured using just one element.

 

[MJPH]

most radiator lists say outputs are calculated using top and bottom oposite ends and any other setup will require a correction factor to be appied
BS EN 442 specifies top, bottom, same end for testing radiators as this gives the maximum output. TBOE and BBOE give about 2% less output. most of us will look at a radiator and if the pipes are not BOE we will assume that they are wrong

 

[stevetheplumber]

if you have a cold spot with tboe then ther system isnt balanced correctly

 

[dancinplumba]

most radiator lists say outputs are calculated using top and bottom oposite ends and any other setup will require a correction factor to be appied
BS EN 442 specifies top, bottom, same end for testing radiators as this gives the maximum output. TBOE and BBOE give about 2% less output. most of us will look at a radiator and if the pipes are not BOE we will assume that they are wrong

please speak for yourself

 

[solarCH]

if you have a cold spot with tboe then ther system isnt balanced correctly

I believe the cool spots appear even when all the rads have the same flow-return temp difference.