1.5 mbar drop

[GrahamM]

GrahamM i didnt want to repost all you have just written but i have read the regs many times, and dont agree with what you have said, the regs clearly say you can leave 4/8 with no smell or report of gas smell we all agree on that, we also all agree the regs say if you dont isolate appliances you can walk away, and we all agree if you get it back to carcass only you cannot leave it, where we disagree is where you are saying if i confirm the leak to be on a specific appliance i MUST fix or isolate, where in the regs does it say that? you do mention an appliance

I have trimmed your post to concentrate on highlighted mater.
So what I am saying is that without pinpointing exactly where the permissible drop is coming from and no smell of gas you can walk away. Job done.
This is as per the guidelines.
But, as soon as you investigate further you have stepped outside the procedure for tightness test and fall back into the realms of GSIUR. Identify it is a leak from the appliance itself and you cannot walk away even though it is permissible as per tightness test procedure. This is as per GSIUR reg 34. (read it in full including the ACOP) You have now identified an individual gas appliance has a gas leak and cannot leave it in operation.

I personally have no problem with the clarity of this topic. Getting too involved and stepping outside the exact procedure laid down puts you within the boundaries of other regulations.

 

[kirkgas]

i think this topic has reached its conclusion for me, having read reg34 i dont see anything we havent discussed, it is there that you cannot allow an appliance that is dangerous to be used, i say an appliance with a small leak with no smell or report of smell isnt dangerous therefore doesnt fall into to where you are interpreting, i asked where it says in the regs or IGE/UP/1B that once the leak is identified as being on one appliance that then that appliance is deemed ID, there is no difference to microscopic leak(s) being on one appliance or split between 2, what would you do if you did TT found this 1.5mb drop, then split the appliances and proved there was 1mb on one and 0,5mb on the other would you then shut down both appliances? no way am i having a dig at you at all here, i just like to make sure im on the right track and always take the time to read and digest other experts opinions as it helps keep us on top of our game (then obviously i ignore every opinion thaat doesnt match mine😛) i keep going back to the fact there is nothing written anywhere saying leak on one appliance is more dangerous than on some appliances

 

[GrahamM]

Ok then kirkgas. Going by your last post.
Stepping away from the tightness test. You know an appliance has a gas leak. At what limit is it classed as not being a danger as per reg 34?
looking at an individual appliance, is a gas leak no matter how small not classed as a danger?

 

[tamz]

I have a 1mb leak on my hob but to fix it would mean getting a screwdriver and a pair of grips. Should i write myself out a warning notice incase the kitchen blows up😱
Maybe it is time they introduced mplr's on domestic. That would give you something to think about😀

 

[mickeyuk]

Reg 34 says it to you Graham or maybe you haven't read it right !I personally think you are over the top and probably will require a stomach pill as you get older,I wish everyone worked to your standard but im sure there would be health issues good luck and keep up the standards

 

[raymondo68]

Hi Tamz

Excuse my ignorance but what are mplr's?

 

[arfurdaley]

Maximum Permitted Leak Rates, used in commercial tightness testing

 

[raymondo68]

Having read this very interesting thread and referred to the documents listed I think I can see where the there is scope for interpretation. Reg 34 does state that it is up to the RGI to use their judgement as to what constitutes a danger.

So the scenario for me goes like this:

TT reveals 1.5mb drop with appliances connected and no smell of gas. RGI can issue gas safety certificate with this information recorded. The RGI has then discharged their responsibility by informing the responsible person about the situation. In the vast majority of circumstances I would guess that the RP would want this matter investigated further, although this will depend largely on what the RGI says at the time.

So, RP says yes please investigate further, RGI now explains possible implications of investigating further (cost, removal of supply or appliances etc.).

RGI carries out further investigation and identifies leak on boiler gas valve. !!JUDGEMENT TIME!!

My judgement in this case is that the boiler is ID. My reasoning is this. I don't know for how long this 1.5mb drop has been occuring and whether or not it is part of a rapidly deteriorating situation. If the gas valve is not seating correctly, next time it closes it might produce an 8mb leak, or indeed no leak at all.

I always say to RP's whether thay are tennants or home owners " I need to be able to sleep tonight and you want to wake up in the morning"

This approach is much better for my health and the health of those who have placed their trust in my skills and judgement.

I carry out LGSR's all day long. Many of the larger Landlords now do not accept any drop on their pipework or appliances. I love this approach as it removes all ambiguity.

Keep up the debate guys, I am still relatively new to the forum but I am drawn back more and more frequently owing to the excellent discussions that take place.

Regards

raymondo

 

[kirkgas]

Ok then kirkgas. Going by your last post.
Stepping away from the tightness test. You know an appliance has a gas leak. At what limit is it classed as not being a danger as per reg 34?
looking at an individual appliance, is a gas leak no matter how small not classed as a danger?

how do we know it is leaking is my first question, if from smell of gas then it is ID, if it is picked up from TT with no smell then it is within tolerances so by definition MUST be ok to leave, nowhere in the regs does it say a 4mb drop on existing MUST be spread over more than 1 appliance, if you have a cooker and fire or just a cooker what difference does it make as long as there is no smell of gas
the allowable leakage rate is to allow for "old" microscopic leaks developing over a period of time from dried up gas grease leaking etc. re your scenario it changes from being not dangerous to dangerous WHEN you can smell it ot it goes over 4/8mb drop