Advice from Plumbers/Htg Engineers

[RH_Estimating]

Hello,

Firstly, this is not spam, and I appologise for any spelling and grammar mistakes.

Just a question to anyone involved in plumbing, small or large. Would you pay, or consider paying, a freelance estimator to complete your quotes/estimates/tenders and offer the service of providing a layout drawing? Also, working out rad sizes, pipe sizes, heat losses, KW's, basically, all the 'admin' side of plumbing.

Do you see it as a job that you can do yourselves? Even if it means on a regular basis you can be missing out on work since your late returning tenders/quotes/estimates to customers?

For smaller companies it may be a 'evil luxury' to have someone do it for you, but for medium to larger companies, IMO, is a good idea. You don’t have legality of hiring someone when your busy, then having to get rid when your quiet etc, you could use a freelancer as infrequent and as frequent as you want.
Id rather build up a good relationship and get regular work, but of course, I know the trade, so know how busy and quiet it can get.

Its just some research I am doing, please see my other thread if interested in business help etc.

Any feedback would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

Rich

 

[secret squirrel]

No, I wouldn't rely on someone else.

The problem is I'd be relying on someone else's ability to get it right, when you work with other people there are always communication mistakes and other issues that arise, changes to plans that I will be able to overcome quickly. Having someone else that would mean phone calls, e-mails, letters, texts etc. Plus additional costs, if the customer changes their mind whilst job commences then I'd have to adjust what I did there and then, which IMO makes the third party a bit obsolete and in these times of hardship an unnecessary expense.

I don't personally quote late, if I am busy I work late into the evening and if I am not then I've got a bit of time. Surely as a freelance you'd have the same problem, market is good your busy and working late then if the market is slow.....

Your turnaround time would change as well?

Yes, I know I can put the charge on to the customer but if you charge £100 then my local competitor is £100 ahead of me to start.

 

[WaterTight]

I think where you alluded to it being useful to bigger companies is the key. Big companies do use such services. Small and medium no point. The vast majority of plumbing companies are comprised of one or two people. You'd have to look far and wide to find enough interest.

 

[gt1]

I could also pay someone to wipe my bum for me. However I'm quite capable of doing that too....

 

[RH_Estimating]

Thanks to both of you for your feedback.

Whist I agree with Secret squrril, I do know few plumbers that struggle for time. Alot will not work when they get home pricing up work, and there is a few out there that wont do any work once they get home. I am a qualified Plumber, served my time, but since worked for larger companies in the tecnical office/estimating/designing. I am looking at setting up, to start off, offering a freelance estimating/design service. I also will offer the option of provding a CAD drawing (dependant on the work).

My ain is the Medium/Large companies, with a view at undertaking Surveys, as well as EPC certificates in the future. I am looking to get involved in the renewable side (ASHP/GSHPs etc) regarding sizeing/priceing etc. For now, I am looking at domestic and small commercial projects.

I am willing to look far and wide, but for now, until iam up and running, I will still be working for the company i work for until I feel i am busy enough to quit/freelance with them.

 

[RH_Estimating]

I could also pay someone to wipe my bum for me. However I'm quite capable of doing that too....

Then my freind, you have too much money if you could pay someone to do that.

 

[mountainman]

I used a service such as yours some years ago when I was pricing larger projects and employed direct labour and subbies.
Got to say that I won more contracts than I lost and those that I won made a decent profit and the cost to me was money well spent.
Good luck

 

[RH_Estimating]

Thanks Mountainman, I appreciate everyones comments. Its going to be a long hard road, but i am determained to make this a success.

it could also be good for small companies, rather than getting tied up pricing 4/5 jobs at a time, price 3 and pass 2 onto a freelancer. We all know how hard it gets when your getting chased for prices, chased for parts being replaced on a boiler, as well as the new bathroom suite that needs fitting yesterday.

I am after feedback more than people saying ' I will use you'. I need to see what other plumbers feel/think on this subject.

 

[SimonG]

Wouldn't use an estimating service.

 

[WaterTight]

I estimate you don't need one.

£500 please.

 

[dancinplumba]

i am with simon, am not a big enough company

 

[Roger Welton]

No from me, it's the bit i enjoy (not so keen about the doing it)

 

[gt1]

Then my freind, you have too much money if you could pay someone to do that.

Well I'm not sure what the wiping rates are at present. I may have to sacrifice the nose wiper to make ends meet. Although my belly button fluff remover has to stay in afraid.

 

[RH_Estimating]

Thanks very much for your feedback.

 

[RH_Estimating]

Well I'm not sure what the wiping rates are at present. I may have to sacrifice the nose wiper to make ends meet. Although my belly button fluff remover has to stay in afraid.

Send me over the drawings, I will give an estimate and a drawing. Not sure A0 size will bne big enough, if so, it wont be to scale.

 

[quality]

There is certainly a market for what your offering, it just does not suit most of us hard grafting plumbers on here.
The future is renewables as I am sure you know, but get that area covered and I think your on to a winner especially if you can design and specify

 

[Guest123]

Sounds a terrific idea, but for one thing, most of don't provide a quotation based on prices alone. Other factors come into it too, such as the type of customer, guarantee of repeat business, competition from other firms in the area etc. Not everything is black and white and facts and figures.

Best of luck with it, but you should contact the much bigger firms, IMO.

 

[grahamgas]

The future is renewables as I am sure you know, but get that area covered and I think your on to a winner especially if you can design and specify

This is also where I think you will be on to a winner.
If you can design and specify across all the technologies, then I think you will do well. I know some of the bigger firms do a design service, but this is only on their kit, which imo is usually overpriced.

 

[RH_Estimating]

This is also where I think you will be on to a winner.
If you can design and specify across all the technologies, then I think you will do well. I know some of the bigger firms do a design service, but this is only on their kit, which imo is usually overpriced.

I currently work for a very large manufacturer of Plumbing products, market leadr in UFH, despite what some may think. I design UFH, RW, Soil/waste etc for them, althoug their service is free, it is very limited as to what you get back. For EG, a UFH design has to meet a certain criteria before we produce a CAD drawing. Although, to be fair, they are very busy, and we would not have time to CAD every job, alot of people have even said they would pay for it. This is where I see a gap in the current market, wher I could fill in. I am slowly getting myself clued up on renewables, I did a course through Kingspan renewables on Solar, but it seemed a waste of time. Wouldnt mind doing another. I am looking at a few of the one dayer CIBSE courses on heat pumps etc. Again, If anyone has better suggestions as to where to look for futher training on this, better companies, let me know.

 

[RH_Estimating]

Also, i agree, I founf this fourm by luck, I had a feeling this site would be for more 'smaller' companies, but I wanted to see some feeback from plumbers, see what the thoughts are. My initial thoughts was Larger companies, but I would never turn a company away just becasue tis one man and his son and, unlikely as some may think, does not have to time to do the quotes. Regardless of what some may say, I would offer very cheap rates to small companies, to the point where its not far off minimum wage if broken down. I know how crap the market is, how much it fluctuates, so if any 'small' companies are considering this, just get in touch with me, my rates wont be of a stupid amount.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I`ve been doing my own priceing for over 30 years, and to be honest , can near as dam it tell what a job will cost , just a little time to fine tune job done, down to experance, you state that you are a plumber, how much experance have you had installing plumbing/heating ? are you up on all the regs ? and if you get it wrong ! who covers the cost of putting it right ??

 

[AWheating]

I worked for a med/large plumbing company for 16 years. They had almost 500 people working there at one stage. They had there own designers and specifiers etc..... the main designer was ex BG. I think a service you are talking about would suit med size company mainly. Larger companies will have in house team due to the full time nature of there business.

You could consider speaking to local counsil and HA, they may want this sort of service from time to time.

 

[Dannypipe]

What area are you in? If I could pay someone a small amount to spec a system for me, and do a proper job of doing it, then I would consider it. Pricing is very time consuming. A small business like mine certainly wouldn't be giving you enough money to make a living though.

 

[AWheating]

as regards design and specification im assuming you would take full design liability of any designs you do providing its installed correctly and to design perameters?