Am I out of my depth? Boiler pump

[JohnBristol]

Hi,

A little while ago I was having an issue(my other post) with my heating and ended up refilling the system as I had very low pressure. This is now fine (about 1.5bar) but this morning the wife had to have a cold shower and she was not impressed! It looks like my boiler is turning itself off after it starts for a couple of minutes. It is the same if it is just the CH or HW or both.

So with my very amateur plumbing hat on I think it might be a problem with the pump and the boiler is just reaching the temperature limit. Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?

I am at work now but after some Googling I think the pump is a Grundfos Magna. It has 3 buttons, two for up and down(I assume speed control) and a cycle button, which I guess is for changing modes. I can definitely hear the pump making noise and if I change the speed level it gets noisier and quieter if I back it off. From what I can see if the pump is the problem it means either it is clogged up with something and can't circulate effectively or their is a fault with the pump itself e.g. the impellor.

So if this all sounds like it is roughly correct should I attempt to clean the pump, if yes any help or advice would be greatly appreciated or should I get a professional in to assess and then either fix or replace the pump?

If it does need to be replaced do you have any suggestions on a good bang for the buck pump. It is a 4 bed semi.

Thank you in advance

 

[SafeGasInstall]

your best solution will be to call a local plumber to have a look and advice what the problem really its !
usually there is few problems that could stop pump from working correctly

 

[JohnBristol]

Ok thanks for the advice.

Probably a silly question but can I turn the immersion heater on to get a hot shower?

 

[aligorgon]

Yes and yes

Unless of course your shower is electric ;-)

Regarding the pump your diagnosis is feasible but there are other possible causes which if start to mention on here will cause the thread to be shut down.

Take safegasinstalls advice and call someone in!

 

[JohnBristol]

Have booked someone in for Monday. Happy to admit if I am beyond something I can safely do myself.

Think I can live without heating for the weekend but if we didn't have a shower the other half would have gone crazy!

Thank you for the help

 

[jam1979]

let us no how u get on

 

[Gray0689]

Magna pumps are expensive too I'm afraid

 

[JohnBristol]

Brief up date.

The boiler worked a couple of times over the weekend so did not need to use the immersion in the end.

Boiler man came around this morning and showed me how to remove the front panel(Potterton boiler) but said I had to keep some specific panels on in inside to keep a seal(I assume something to do with stopping gas or fire spreading) but having the front panel off meant I could see some lights that show fault codes.

After looking up the codes that came up with him he thinks it is either or both the condensing trap, which looked like it had silt or something in it, or the PCB. He suggested replacing the trap first as this should be done anyway, if that fixes it everyone is a winner, it not then replace the PCB.

 

[Howsie]

He suggested replacing the trap? Interesting.

 

[JohnBristol]

I had a look at it too, it did not look very nice and he said it should be clear.

In the boiler troubleshooting thing it also said check the trap had clear water.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

He could wash it !!!!!

 

[JohnBristol]

I am afraid I did not ask. Is that the sort of thing I could do? It is at the back in the bottom left.

He rang the office and they quote £120 +VAT for supply and fit

 

[SafeGasInstall]

forget about it and get another plumber

 

[SafeGasInstall]

forget about him , and get another plumber

list your work requirement here and a trusted plumber will come over and not rip you of for replacing a condense trap at £120 +vat

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

 

[JohnBristol]

The plumber himself seemed like a decent enough guy and it was the office that gave me the quote. I think he is just given a list of jobs in his area and then goes out and does them. He didn't know a specific price for anything, I guess for fear of accidentally telling me the trade price for something.

What is a reasonable price and I might try to negotiate with the office?
Should I try to clean the trap?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

walk away !!! tbh

 

[JohnBristol]

Fair enough. I have told them I am going to market for the best quote.

She mentioned on the phone that the PCB would be £248 + VAT supplier and fitted.

When I go home I will get the model number and post up on that link you gave me. Hopefully something decent is in the Bristol area.

 

[JohnBristol]

Based on what he said should they or I try to clean it first before replacing it?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

No , if he has washed it with fresh running water from the tap , that is all it needs ! If it has been blocked then is a difrent story ! Please do not attempt to do any work on the boiler your self !!!

 

[JohnBristol]

Ok, I will not do anything with the boiler. He did not do anything with it just showed me that it looked full of silt or something and told me it should look clear and said I needed a new one.

Might I need someone else to come out just to inspect it?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

when you had a look did it just look little bit of clear almost like light yellow, or was it silver dork colour ????

 

[JohnBristol]

I will try to get a photo when I get home but from memory the left side looked a little yello and the right side a silvery silt with brown/grey water above. That is all from memory though I could be off and will get a picture tonight

 

[SafeGasInstall]

ok get the picture here !

 

[aligorgon]

Dont understand why he didnt just clean it...

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Why clean it if you could change it for £120+ vat !!!

 

[Ollieg]

I will clean it for £120 inc VAT. But on my first visit i will just tell you it needs a clean and charge you call out.

 

[Boilerbud]

Hi John

Ignition electrode can also be problematic and possibly the pcb. Look at what Heateam charge before you forked out money on expensive items like pcb.

 

[Killy Bing]

What the....unless the trap is leaking why think of replacing it? Just give it a blast with a hose in worst case scenario

 

[JohnBristol]

Here is the pic. I am not sure why it rotated. It is silt or fur on the right side and discoloured on the left.

So based on that should I ask someone to clean it? I can't see any leaks or anything like that.

 

[Rickster123]

If I was a suspicious man I'd say this entire thread has been you fishing for info on a DIY boiler repair. Countless times you've been advised what to do. The fact that you are happy to remove boiler casing would to me suggest you are happy to attempt a repair.
Get a local gas safe registered engineer in to resolve the issue or you.

 

[JohnBristol]

I am sure it may seem that I want to DIY this but I have no desire to do anything that could be considered dangerous but I also do not want to be tricked it not doing unnecessary work.

As suggested I did get a professional to come in and have a look at the issue. He explained that my original idea of it being the pump is unlikely because of the issues with the trap and potentially the PCB.

I was perfectly happy to go ahead with them fitting a new trap but I thought I should check with you, as experts, to see if what he suggested made sense and was a fair price. Then a lot of you say I am being ripped off and that the trap can probably just be cleaned but that a picture would helpful. From memory I thought the trap was outside of the case and thought it would be easy to get a pic. When I got home I realised it wasn't but thought experts would not ask me to get a picture of something if I could not access it safely. If I should not have done it then I will not touch it again.

Based on the picture is the condition it is in caused by the trap itself, i.e. does it need to be replaced? Or is it just a normal build up of stuff that can be cleaned?

Depending on your answer I will then ask a professional to either clean or replace the trap? If that does not fix the issue get them to fix/replace the PCB or ignition electrode.

I am only trying to make sure I have enough information so that I can talk to whoever comes in with more knowledge than I did the last time to make sure I am not being conned into buying something that is not needed.

If there was a "Clean trap" button and you said I could press it then I would but I have no desire at all to do anything more complicated than that.

 

[stoker122]

I wouldn't be looking at changing the trap unless it was damaged.
It can be cleaned.
Is the boiler due a service? I would look to service it before randomly changing components.
Have you asked on here if anyone is local to you?

 

[JohnBristol]

It was serviced last year and then maybe 1-2 a month it might not start but would always fire on a reset. The boiler guy said he could not diagnose it easily as it was intermittent and was not happening when he was there.

I think next service is about July maybe August.

I will put a thread up in a moment for someone local

 

[Howsie]

Condense trap is usually cleaned as part of a service.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Condense trap is usually cleaned as part of a service.

No, you mean it should be cleaned as part of a service. I've come across plenty that haven't been on a "service".