Central Heating problem

[Dark_Towers]

Hi people,

I wonder if I could pick someone's brains with regard to a central heating issue.

I guess I am asking two things:

Are we being stitched up?

Does this sound normal?

The first issue occurred whereby the central heating failed completely. A plumber came round and 'overrode' (I can't tell you any more about this as I don't know) the system so that the central heating could be put on manually...as opposed to the timer.

Another plumber came round and stated that the motorized valve needed replacing and also a small 'electric box' thing (sorry...again I can't tell you any more about it) that was near/next to the motorised valve needed replacing as well. He charged £200 to complete the job and this appeared to cure the problem.

Approx 1-2 weeks later the water would not heat up. The same plumber came round and said that a second motorized valve had gone. He replaced this and charged £130. Again this appeared to cure the problem.

The VERY NEXT MORNING the heating and water seemed to have failed again. It can be 'overridden' again and so the heating and water can be heated up manually again by putting them on constant...however it is not working properly...ie you can't just put it on the normal timer and allow it to work as normal.

Someone has suggested that there is likely to be gunk and stuff in the system and that the system needs clearing out or bleeding through.

Should this have been done in the first place and would the other stuff have needed to be done if the plumber had just bled the system first??

I believe the motorized valves are “Honeywell” valves.

The boiler is a “ICOS” iIdeal one.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.

D_T

 

[ecowarm]

welcome to the forum, it would be difficult to say you are being ripped off.
It does sound very odd that the new valves are now playing up, if your system was full of sludge the plumber would have noticed this when changing valves. Can you post some pictures of the valves and pump?

 

[Rickster123]

Hi d.t,
Sounds very much like a time clock issue to me mate. Not sure about the valves needing to be replaced in the past. But from your description I would be checking the timeclock first.

 

[Dark_Towers]

Thank you guys for the rapid response.

If only I could get the same response out of the plumber doing the job...lol. Anyway sorry for digressing.

Thank you for the welcome.

I will attempt to take a picture if I can...but that is rather technical for me...lol But will try. Not sure what you mean by the pump though...sorry if that is really thick... :sick:

I suppose the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the system did work, albeit briefly, after the plumber came round.

In terms of the plumber noticing any gunk...I think he only replaced the top bit (ie the silver box thing on the top). I don't think he replaced the entire valve. Again I will try and clarify that with the person who was there at the time (family member)

I will attempt to take couple of pics either tonight or tomorrow to see if that helps!
Thank you again..
D_T

 

[Dannypipe]

I was going to say, it is more likely that he changed the actuator than the whole valve. I think you may have a programmer issue, however the only way to tell would be to test the system.

Gunk in a system has to be quite severe to cause issues with quality Honeywell valves. They are better made than their competitors and don't generally fail after a couple of weeks. I had to fit a salus motorised valve the other week as it came supplied in a kit by the client. It was so crap, I took it apart and managed to put an extra screw through into the valve (which had a tapping) to hold the head in place better.

 

[Dark_Towers]

Hopefully these pictures may help in some way.

The boiler was fitted about two years ago...the system hasn't been flushed since then...is that a long time? I live in a very hard water area...if that makes a difference?

I have also just noticed a slow drip leak coming from the left bit of the valve that you can see in the last picture...:sick: ...if that would make any difference.

Someone mentioned the clock/timeclock earlier...is that the same as the programmer?

Thank you again for responses.

 

[ecowarm]

I would say if they only changed the heads of the valves that is proberbly the problem mr towers. I can't imagine its the programmer/ time clock?

 

[Dark_Towers]

I would say if they only changed the heads of the valves that is proberbly the problem mr towers. I can't imagine its the programmer/ time clock?

Is it likely that they would just go again that quick after being replaced? Are you saying that they just need replacing again...or are you saying the whole valve needs doing? I am guessing they would have a warranty???

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi see you have got a Drayton R/F unit, is this a timer and room stat all in one unit ? try replaceing the batterys in the transmiter, also if main power was switched off the unit will need resetting or else they will-not talk to each other, you will find this information in your user book for timer.

 

[Dark_Towers]

Hi see you have got a Drayton R/F unit, is this a timer and room stat all in one unit ? try replaceing the batterys in the transmiter, also if main power was switched off the unit will need resetting or else they will-not talk to each other, you will find this information in your user book for timer.

Hi jts,

I don't even know what you mean by room stat. Do you mean thermostat? In which case I think it is.

Unfortunately I am not very technical and only use it....:sick: press buttons when required etc etc

I would hope that what you suggest, the plumber has done himself. But I will try and check in the morning.

Thanks again...D_T

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi again, yes i mean a thermostat, have you got a seperate time control ? or is it a all in the one unit ? they must have switched off power to change power heads , when this happens the radio link from transmiter (the part you use) and recever the part on wall with green & red lights is broken, then you need to get them to talk to eachother again, if you have got the user book it will tell what you need to do . Best of luck. JTS

 

[Dark_Towers]

I will def check thank you.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

in the white box in the middle where it says wireless stat , you have the red light on .
pls pres and hold 1 and two this will make wireless conection to your stat and will activeate the green light on the very same unit ,if not sure pls download manual for your programer

 

[mfgs]

It does sound more like a time control or thermostat problem to me. It would be highly unlikely the actuators on the zone valves would fail after such a short time.

 

[CES]

As already said I would check out the controls.

 

[Dark_Towers]

Hi see you have got a Drayton R/F unit, is this a timer and room stat all in one unit ? try replaceing the batterys in the transmiter, also if main power was switched off the unit will need resetting or else they will-not talk to each other, you will find this information in your user book for timer.

I don't think they are an all in one unit now actually. There is a separate thermostat in a different room.

in the white box in the middle where it says wireless stat , you have the red light on.
pls pres and hold 1 and two this will make wireless conection to your stat and will activeate the green light on the very same unit ,if not sure pls download manual for your programer

The green light is already on and the red "Alarm" light is flashing. Do you still think I should press and hold the two buttons even though the green light is already on.

Also now noticed that on the silver box (actuator?) the override switch has no resistance at all on it. Is this indicative of anything???

 

[brightcrow]

Hi Had same problem at my sisters place recently, turned out to be the thermostat on wall (RF - radio frequency unit as suggested by jts). In her case the bttery compartment was broken so did not hold batteries in. In you case may just need batteries changed i am afraid to say.

I am embarassed to say my first reaction was valve head too (as rf base unit overide does little to convice you otherwise) so dont be too hard on your engineer if that turns out to be case!

 

[Dark_Towers]

Hi Had same problem at my sisters place recently, turned out to be the thermostat on wall (RF - radio frequency unit as suggested by jts). In her case the bttery compartment was broken so did not hold batteries in. In you case may just need batteries changed i am afraid to say.

I am embarassed to say my first reaction was valve head too (as rf base unit overide does little to convice you otherwise) so dont be too hard on your engineer if that turns out to be case!

It's funny you say that....I have now also just noticed the following.

In the thermostat thing for the water temperature (again in a separate room)...it is flashing "of" and also what appears to be a little battery symbol flashing as well.

In the room temperature thermostat also flashing in the window is a battery symbol with a diagonal "gap" in the battery symbol???

So with that in mind....do you think I should start with batteries???

I am afraid that I have to ask where are the batteries....sorry...:freak:

Are they in the unit that I showed picture of, or the unit that I press the buttons on (ie change the timer and either turn programme on/off etc), or are they in the thermostat on the walls in other rooms.

Thanks again for replies and help.

D_T

 

[Gray0689]

Unit that you press buttons on the one flashing

 

[brightcrow]

It's funny you say that....I have now also just noticed the following.

In the thermostat thing for the water temperature (again in a separate room)...it is flashing "of" and also what appears to be a little battery symbol flashing as well.

In the room temperature thermostat also flashing in the window is a battery symbol with a diagonal "gap" in the battery symbol???

So with that in mind....do you think I should start with batteries???

I am afraid that I have to ask where are the batteries....sorry...:freak:

Are they in the unit that I showed picture of, or the unit that I press the buttons on (ie change the timer and either turn programme on/off etc), or are they in the thermostat on the walls in other rooms.

Thanks again for replies and help.

D_T

The recievers in cupboard (in your pictures) are mains fed so no batteries required.

I would start with whichever the Drayton unit connects to (not sure if its cylinder stat or room stat on wall but probably the latter). If its two years old it may be worth changing batteries in the lot by now, as will probably be less aggro.

I am guessing the Danfoss is the programmer and that normally displays pretty clearly if it needs new batteries.

 

[Dark_Towers]

The recievers in cupboard (in your pictures) are mains fed so no batteries required.

I would start with whichever the Drayton unit connects to (not sure if its cylinder stat or room stat on wall but probably the latter). If its two years old it may be worth changing batteries in the lot by now, as will probably be less aggro.

I am guessing the Danfoss is the programmer and that normally displays pretty clearly if it needs new batteries.

OK...I'll change all batteries then....I guess it can't hurt either way.

Once changed will I need to do anything to them so that they "talk" to each other again after???

 

[brightcrow]

Normally if you change them reasonably quickly, it should stay paired. If not it may be a case of digging out instructions or looking up online as they are all different of course!

 

[Dark_Towers]

I have changed the batteries...and it has got rid of the battery symbol and the "of" in the window....but the actual problem with the heating is still not sorted!!!

For the sake of ease I have taken another picture...just so you guys know what I am talking about.



On the "Honeywell" control panel you have two slider switches for the heating and the hot water. To get the boiler to "fire up" and actually heat the water....you have to have the heating (slider) on.

As shown in the picture, if you just have the hot water on it will not heat the water up. The boiler only fires up when you then slide the "heating" switch to on. If you have it in the position as shown in the picture....the "burner" light on the boiler flashes. It only becomes constant when you slide the heating on and the boiler fires up.

Hope that makes sense to someone...

 

[marinegmillie]

Hi, check hot water cylinder stat, you really need a multimeter and someone who knows how to use it, your plumber should have done this that way he would of found whether the 2 port valves were faulty

 

[brightcrow]

Right another piece of puzzle falls into place. Programmer is not wireless so i guess the cylinder thermostat is, so just to confirm have you changed batteries in that? Also have you always had this problem with progammer or always had to have hot water on at same time as heating?

Judging by pictures you have had a floor standing boiler with gravity hot water (no temperature control) changed to a fully pumped system. for clarity, is the heating pump built into boiler? And also did programmer pre date the new boiler? i ask this as there may be a slider on back of programmer to switch between gravity and fully pumped which would give independant heating and hot water control

 

[Dark_Towers]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies so far...I will add some more pictures in the hope that they will make sense or help!!!

Brightcrow in answer to your questions...

I have changed the batteries in the heating thermostat and the water thermostat.

Have not always had this problem....this is a new problem. We have always previously been able to heat the water up independently from the heating.

I don't know if the heating pump is built into the boiler.....hopefully the pictures will help.

I have no idea if there is a slider on the back of the programmer...but as said earlier this has only just recently become a problem...since the motorized valve actuators were changed.

Correct in that we used to have a floor standing boiler with gravity hot water (no temperature control) changed to a fully pumped system.

Picture 1 is the boiler.
Picture 2 is the heating thermostat.
Picture 3 is the water thermostat.

 

[brightcrow]

Ok, sorry if i'm getting a bit technical with all the questions. Sometimes a getting a wider view of system can help pinpoint the answer.

Boiler looks like the icos system boiler so has pump built in, and since all was ok with programmer before this and the slider thing are not relevant now.

If you say boiler wont fire for hot water only then it leads me to believe there is a problem with cylinder stat. This is probably that it needs to re-paired with reciever near motorised valves. Looking at picture there appears to be symbol on display which may indicate this but cant quite make it out.

Sound daft but might be worth turning whole system power off, waiting thirty seconds and turning back on. This often triggers reciever to start a re-pairing procedure.

if that fails then you will need to find instruction for cylinder thermostat and follow the re-pairing process through.

Will try and find a link for you

 

[brightcrow]

Danfoss Randall United Kingdomere you go

 

[brightcrow]

try that again


[url]http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/Product/087N7277_MNU17433344.html




[/URL]

 

[Dark_Towers]

I have tried the link....doesn't appear to work.

The little symbol in the window appear to be a little flame.

I have taken another picture in which it is a little bit clearer.



Just seen the link fixed thanks. Hope the symbol clearer for you.

 

[brightcrow]

Try this one and look at section on "comissioning". If this process doesn't work then my next port of call would be programmer replacement unfortunately or getting your guy back to check his wiring.

If you wanted to get Hot Water in mean time, you could manually overide hot water valve using lever on top of it and running the heating, but watch out for the temperature of water when as there will be no temperature control.


http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/PCMPDF/25322v07.pdf

 

[Dark_Towers]

Try this one and look at section on "comissioning". If this process doesn't work then my next port of call would be programmer replacement unfortunately or getting your guy back to check his wiring.

If you wanted to get Hot Water in mean time, you could manually overide hot water valve using lever on top of it and running the heating, but watch out for the temperature of water when as there will be no temperature control.

Thank you I will give that a try and see from there.

With regard to manually overriding it. That is what we are currently doing.

I will keep you updated...thank you for help.

1 quick question....how do I ensure the programmer "is calling"...as per commissioning pages.

 

[brightcrow]

red light "on" on hw slider on programmer and believe the reciever should have a light on too.

Take valve out of manual overide while you do this though.

 

[Dark_Towers]

Ok will give it a try...with someone else helping...I'll keep you updated. Thank you.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi brightcrow is pointing you the right way, reading througth what has been advised i think it has come down to 1 faulty programer 2, a wire as droped out of main wireing center when new valves replaced. easy to check out.