Filling Loop

[jase158]

Customer of mine thought that a PRV would only let 1 bar of water into boiler and would shut down as soon as pressure went to 1 bar.

After a hour of explaing what a PRV actually does and that it would actually not work, he finnaly agreed. (I hope he understood, still not sure)

Any way, got me thinking, wouldnt it be good if we had an automatic filling loop, so that when bleeding radiators the system automatically filled up. now obviously you would need to isolate after filling, but It would save running down stairs and back upstairs all the time when filling up. I would like your thoughts on this.

 

[desrob]

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbnnnnnnnnn

 

[Best]

That actually exists. I have fitted some.

 

[jase158]

Where? what? how? do i get one?

 

[Best]

All you need is a PRV set to 1 bar, before the filling loop. Think I used Flamco. Only use to fill, then turn mains supply off.

 

[tamz]

Just get yourself a half inch pressure reducing valve and a flexi and use that.
I just fill the rads closest then fire it up to 3 bar and fill the rest.

 

[tipintim]

I leave it on full while im filling (would not get to 3 bar cold hear) and then to test that the prv works by running the boiler to make it
rise to 3 bar to blow off. Other wise how would you know its working

 

[Best]

Just get yourself a half inch pressure reducing valve and a flexi and use that.
I just fill the rads closest then fire it up to 3 bar and fill the rest.

Thats what I used. I think I should keep one just for the job, rather than fitting permanite. I wouldn't advise turning pressure above max filling pressure as I think it can cause problems with exp vessel.

 

[jase158]

OMG
well he was right then, that doesnt make sense to me, I thought is reduced the pressure so the water is going to go through at 1 bar, and eventually become more then 1 bar?

but what you are saying is that once it gets to 1 bar, it wont fill up any more.

wow, learnt something new every day.

 

[jase158]

I leave it on full while im filling (would not get to 3 bar cold hear) and then to test that the prv works by running the boiler to make it
rise to 3 bar to blow off. Other wise how would you know its working

Turn the knob at the top?

 

[Best]

OMG
well he was right then, that doesnt make sense to me, I thought is reduced the pressure so the water is going to go through at 1 bar, and eventually become more then 1 bar?

but what you are saying is that once it gets to 1 bar, it wont fill up any more.

wow, learnt something new every day.

Yes, think about it, the system is closed, so it can't go above 1 bar when filling. If the PRV let any more water through it, the press would rise. You will have to tell your customer you had a rethink! :redface:

 

[jase158]

Yes, think about it, the system is closed, so it can't go above 1 bar when filling. If the PRV let any more water through it, the press would rise. You will have to tell your customer you had a rethink! :redface:

Did fit it anyway as he was adiment he wanted it fitted, will just email explaining the situation.

 

[Rob Sale]

Putting a pressure reducing valve on a system as a filling loop is a risky business because if there is a leak in the system, the valve will continue to fill the system up causing potential damage to a property by a continues leak without finding out there is a problem until it becomes a big problem.

 

[Barry98]

There handy when your working on your own I've had mine a whole now saves plenty of time

 

[Best]

Putting a pressure reducing valve on a system as a filling loop is a risky business because if there is a leak in the system, the valve will continue to fill the system up causing potential damage to a property by a continues leak without finding out there is a problem.

That's correct. One benefit of a sealed system is that it can't keep filling in. Hence why I said , for filling only.

 

[warrington]

rob is right. Something like that will act like f/e tank. I prefer to see pressure loss so i can suspect a leak and fix it before it cause more damage.

 

[jase158]

Putting a pressure reducing valve on a system as a filling loop is a risky business because if there is a leak in the system, the valve will continue to fill the system up causing potential damage to a property by a continues leak without finding out there is a problem until it becomes a big problem.

hmmm, gonna have a think about emailing as he wanted to leave on as he had a leak (under maintenance contract from somebody else) and it hasn't appeared, so this is why he is fitting, (believes it may be under house.)so using this to fill system all the time.
And system doesnt seem quite right as no air valve at highest point either. boiler not working.
By the way I only went to do power flush as maintenance company said this was problem.
This is why I didnt get involved very much with other issues.

 

[Best]

You have probably got a lot of Heating guys who don't use them, now considering getting a 15 mm PRV for filling systems. Def great when you are on your own trying to be quick.

 

[jase158]

Also he hasn't got pressure gauge for PRV, so he was going to work it out by pressure gauge on boiler.

Maybe a bit much for a diyer?

 

[tamz]

It is illegal to leave a filling loop connected and it is really bad for his system.
If he has a leak and the system is constantly filling you are introducing oxygen to the system which will create sludge.
Far better and cheaper in the long run to trace the leak.

 

[jase158]

You have probably got a lot of Heating guys who don't use them, now considering getting a 15 mm PRV for filling systems. Def great when you are on your own trying to be quick.

got to be good, all you have to do is have preset to 1 bar connect to filling loop and go and bleed valves.
May go and get one tommorow

 

[Rob Sale]

The other thing with a Pressure reducing valve, when the boiler has a overheat problem causing the Pressure relief valve to blow off. Then the pressure reducing valve refills the system causing a spiral of cutting on and off with the customer/engineer just pressing reset without finding out what the real problem is. Which eventually will lead to a peed off customer.

 

[Best]

Go early in case there's a queue! I should get one myself. Only ever fitted some for customers for ease of filling, but really only needed for total refills.

 

[jase158]

Go early in case there's a queue! I should get one myself. Only ever fitted some for customers for ease of filling, but really only needed for total refills.

Preordered mine online, lol

 

[dontknowitall]

It is illegal to leave a filling loop connected and it is really bad for his system.
If he has a leak and the system is constantly filling you are introducing oxygen to the system which will create sludge.
Far better and cheaper in the long run to trace the leak.

I nearly posted something along these lines but thought I might have been wrong. Wish I'd had the courage of my convictions.

Another little thing learned!!

 

[jase158]

It is illegal to leave a filling loop connected and it is really bad for his system.
If he has a leak and the system is constantly filling you are introducing oxygen to the system which will create sludge.
Far better and cheaper in the long run to trace the leak.

I know it illegal to not remove the filling loop, but every single system I have been to has filling loop attached. did use to keep filling loop in van, now don't bother as they always have it connected?

He has had several plumbers in to trace leak and nobody could find it. As said before he has maintenance contract and I leave it to them to sort out.

 

[tamz]

I nearly posted something along these lines but thought I might have been wrong. Wish I'd had the courage of my convictions.

Another little thing learned!!

Heating systems are classed as fluid catagory 3. A double check valve on its own is not enough protection for a permanent connection.
The only time it can be done on a domestic system if if a CA device is used.
One of these types
[DLMURL]http://www.arrowvalves.co.uk/download_ds/cadatasheet[/DLMURL]

 

[Best]

All is required for water regs, as far as I know, is that hose is disconnected. It is to prevent contaminated water from the heating going into the mains if, say the double check valve failed. An extra turn off valve fitted on the loop would help prevent this, but still supposed to disconnect. Most I see are connected.

 

[Best]

Thanks for that info Tamz! It looks quite a piece of kit, so guess it's not cheap though.

 

[tamz]

I just had a read through the arrow website. There is lots of good information there. Check it out
Home

 

[theanalyst]

Thanks for that info Tamz! It looks quite a piece of kit, so guess it's not cheap though.

Just wanting to clear up if people are using this? A pressure reducing valve, attached to a flexi and used as the filling loop....
But a PRV restricts pressure entering a property usually....does this mean that the arrow on the valve needs to face 'the wrong way' as it needs to measure the Ch system pressure . Does it close completely or what? I thought it was designed to restrict flow and not shut supply of completely?

sorry , its been a long day :dizzy2:

 

[tamz]

It will only let the pressure through the valve at what you set it to (it rises slightly on static). It doesn't restrict flow ( well nothing to talk about), only pressure.
Read this and save me explaining how it works
Pressure regulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kay-jay]

It Will guarantee you don't over pressurerise the system. However most of us Will just slightly crack open the filling loop then run round bleeding all rads then when on the last one turn off fill loop and bleed then top up system as necessary 🙂

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mountainman]

It Will guarantee you don't over pressurerise the system. However most of us Will just slightly crack open the filling loop then run round bleeding all rads then when on the last one turn off fill loop and bleed then top up system as necessary 🙂

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE

I've always done it this way.

 

[theanalyst]

It Will guarantee you don't over pressurerise the system. However most of us Will just slightly crack open the filling loop then run round bleeding all rads then when on the last one turn off fill loop and bleed then top up system as necessary 🙂

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Indeed, this is how I usually do it but some years ago on an early solo install, I left the f'loop a bit far open and got distracted by the attractive female customer....while bleeding radiators.
Realised when I was on the 2nd floor of the very large house that there was rather a lot of pressure when I bled the radiators.....
Legged it downstairs and the PRV had gone off !! :goofy:

Never made that mistake again but always looking for new gadgets to make this {hard} job easier 🙂