Getting the cheapest possible bargain price on your heating install.

[Ray Stafford]

Saving money by shopping around.

Money doesn’t grow on trees, and few of us have so much of it that we can afford to waste it. It makes sense, therefore, to shop around, and make sure that we are getting good value.
So we Go-Compare, we are sooooo! Money-Supermarket, and we have Meerkats in places where 10 years ago, we didn’t even know we had places.

Fortunately, we have Ebay, and Moneysavingexpert on our side, which is just as well, because all the traders out there are sharks right? Well, maybe some are. Certainly it makes sense to use the internet to get an idea of the price of rarely purchased, high value items. However, when it comes to services, rather than products, how can we be sure that we are comparing apples with apples?

It’s not easy being a savvy consumer, but it’s very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the cheapest deal must be the best deal.

However, we don’t all shop at Lidl, drive Dacias and holiday in down-town Kabul. Ever so cheap, that holiday apartment in Kabul. J

With this in mind, here are a few things that you might be in the market for at some point in your life. We wonder if the cheapest price, or the lowest bidder would be your preferred measure when choosing:

• The surgeon who will operate on your wife or child?

• Your new baby’s car seat?

• The contractor who maintains the planes for the airline you are flying with?

• The people who design the braking and fuel systems in the car your wife takes the kids to school in?

It might be worth reflecting on that list when you choose

• The person who is going to fit the gas appliances in the house where your wife and children sleep.

Every year, 200 people go to hospital in the UK with Carbon Monoxide poisoning. 40 of them don’t come out again.

 

[Best]

Brilliant Ray! At the very least the basic message of that should be given to anyone getting quotes looking for the cheapest.

 

[REDSAW]

thought it was a sales pitch ray! lol

 

[Riley]

You're wasted as a highway man Ray

 

[Old Account]

You couldn't say that better , well done - thumbs up big time!!!

Shame don't see that like that

 

[townfanjon]

Ray , its a shame its only us guys who will read this post, it would look good on news at ten, billboards, back of buses etc. perhaps the public may just think ????

 

[Ray Stafford]

Ray , its a shame its only us guys who will read this post, it would look good on news at ten, billboards, back of buses etc. perhaps the public may just think ????

I posted it on a public section of the forum in the hope that people looking for advice on squeezing costs would read it, and decide to make their savings in another area. I'm not sure that we can get it on news at 10 or the back of buses, but isnt that what social media (like this forum) is for? To allow people without big advertising budgets to get a message out.

 

[Old Account]

So true mate,

Would you mind if I share that on Facebook ? I'd like to try to publish it a bit more ?

 

[Riley]

whilst I utterly agree with what Ray has written. The problem is there are so many people out there that come onto a forum like this to look for justification for their ridiculously cheap quote which they are going to go with even if we say yes or no. people don't like being told what to do especially when money is concerned. The amount of them that are so proud when they found themselves a basement bargain The real way for this to be dealt with is for the government to step up and to work with Gas Safe so that illegal/DIY/unqualified gas work can't happen.

 

[Ray Stafford]

So true mate,

Would you mind if I share that on Facebook ? I'd like to try to publish it a bit more ?

No worries - go ahead.

 

[Ray Stafford]

whilst I utterly agree with what Ray has written. The problem is there are so many people out there that come onto a forum like this to look for justification for their ridiculously cheap quote which they are going to go with even if we say yes or no. people don't like being told what to do especially when money is concerned. The amount of them that are so proud when they found themselves a basement bargain The real way for this to be dealt with is for the government to step up and to work with Gas Safe so that illegal/DIY/unqualified gas work can't happen.

I agree with Matt that we won't persuade everyone. But if we can just move the 5% who were tending towards going cheapskate, but we can persuade to think about it in a different light, I would be delighted. It doesn't mean that you can't also lobby for more effective enforcement of existing regs, or indeed new regs if the existing ones are found to be wanting.

 

[Riley]

I agree with Matt that we won't persuade everyone. But if we can just move the 5% who were tending towards going cheapskate, but we can persuade to think about it in a different light, I would be delighted. It doesn't mean that you can't also lobby for more effective enforcement of existing regs, or indeed new regs if the existing ones are found to be wanting.

well said mate. Small victories and all that. Just be nice if we got an opinion from the likes of GS or those in charge. Just to let us know that they are taking things seriously and not just giving lip service

 

[REDSAW]

i can see an abreviated version on the back of a 't'-shirt!!

 

[Ray Stafford]

The abbreviated version is:

Buy cheap
Buy twice

 

[Riley]

It's such a shame though. I love how passionate most of the people on here are about doing things properly and legally. I do wish we could develop the idea of the UKPF further and actually properly offer plumbing and heating services almost as a brand . I know the UKPF is no guarantee of quality however I think we all agree that the abuse somebody on here would get for offering rubbish service would be tangible. I wonder if Dan would entertain the idea of a postcode search so a potential customer could actually search for a forum member based on location as I suspect that a number of people looking for plumbers don't get any sort of response because they don't put a location in the subject or don't give enough information. By searching for plumbers companies in their area they could contact one, two, or more plumbers in one easy hit.

 

[sticky01]

Okay so I'm not a plumbing professional just a DIY'er who has the time time research on the net to gain the information to do whatever project I'm currently working to the best of my ability. I'm old enough to have taken on board the lesson by cheap buy twice. I've always found that this forum provides excellent advice. If I were in a position to require a GS engineer to replace a boiler then the ability to be able to search for a registered engineer by post code would be a step forward. I'm not a regular poster but do regularly read posts on these forums and you get a feel, it may be wrong, for plumbers who know their onions! or maybe that should be olives!!

Sticky

 

[newcastle phill]

This is exactly why I charge exorbitant prices and provide the exact same level of service as the cheap skates !!!

To make them feel i must be better....

What ??? No???

HAH

Thanks ray

 

[walterwhite]

Problem is, leopards don't change their spots. A person looking for the cheapest option will always do so...I don't want their business but do my best to convert them!

 

[Jaymc]

Hello all,
AS you can see, I’m a new member to the forum. I totally understand what Ray is getting at, and I understand the sentiment behind it. As one of those who used to service those aircraft your families fly with, I personally understand the point.
As a consumer though, it’s not the product I worry about, it’s the never ending supply of dubious people out there, offering to supply or fit them.
We all know that within any trade, there are plenty of unscrupulous individuals who are quite happy to charge silly money for substandard work. Take a roofer for example, how many of the general public, including yourselves, go on the roof to check the work? So the point being, we put our trust in that tradesman, that he has carried out the job to the best of his ability, and you have been charged fairly for the service……..right?
My issue with the domestic heating industry, is that (rightly so) we are legally obliged to use a certified engineer, preventing dodgy DIY issues from occurring, yet the quality between those individuals, despite their qualification, is immeasurable, and they charge how they see fit.
I did 15 years in the RAF, and saw no end of lads do a 2 week plumbing course, and then do 3 days ACS, only to be churned out as qualified gas fitters? They’re my mates, but I wouldn’t let them near my Gas! Especially, as we are former weapons engineers LOL
I think the point I’m getting at, is it’s so difficult to determine what kind of engineer you’re getting, I know of people in the building industry who will put you onto family members when checking on their quality of work! That’s frightening! But I suppose it happens in all trades………..How do you combat that?
I’m fortunate to able to most of my own work, but that’s based on seeing the dreadful work carried out on my parents house when I was 14, the ramifications of seeing them in tears after loosing money on sub standard work, and worse, by a friend of theirs, pointed me in the right direction for self reliance.
Only today I received a quote of just shy of £4k to supply, fit, and re-pipe a W/B 34 CDI and remove a storage tank.
As one of those savvy shoppers, I can buy that boiler and associated parts, plus 9 rads and Drayton TRVs (which are not in that quote) for less than £1800 online and that’s before I go into the merchants and haggle prices, which normally ends up cheaper. So is £2100 a reasonable cost for that work? Not to me, so sometimes the more expensive quotes don’t happen to be best either, but that’s what’s so difficult to determine. I’m paying for his skill, and knowledge, yet I‘ve only known him for 45 minutes!
I appreciate profit has to be made, but sometimes the legal burden to use a “certified” tradesman can come at a cost, that said, it’s what we have to do, and can’t argue with it.
What I like about the forums, is that the type of individual using it is inclined to want to help, and be helped, and I find forums an invaluable way of researching.
“Riley” put it in to context with his post, if such a place was made available to select an engineer for heating work, and one that was available to accept positive and negative feedback from all, the world would be a better place, as bad work gets negative press, and professional pride would get battered in front of their peers on a website..
I know of, as I’m sure you do, of several sites out there that offer this, basing your hiring on the reviews of “Joe Public” but I’ve seen much error in those as well.
I often say buyer beware! And it’s down to the individual to spend more time assessing the potential tradesman they are using, as much as saving a few £££ trawling the internet for weeks.
I hope I’m not offending anyone here, that’s not my intention, just passing on my views as a “Customer”
Regards

Jay

 

[Best]

Hello Jay. Problem I see with the trade is if the tradesman is dishonest, then all the qualifications in the world won't make him/her honest. Also I think there is often too much emphasis on paperwork, although you need that too.
But remember, regarding what a heating engineer charges you, - he has his van, equipment, training, insurances, holidays, losses, etc to take out of that before he gets a wage.

 

[Stanios]

Ive tried persuading my mom to stop going with cheapest quotes for all work she has done on the house. So far she had 0 good experiences literally all work has issues. You should see the state of the boiler, patio, lawn, paintwork, lamenate floor with no underlay list goes on.. and it was all meant to be done by professionals.

Unfortunately these bad experiences didn't make her think about rock bottom quotes she gone for each time, no. Rather that its all the trades people arent reliable!

None of these people will ever realise the failure of their project is actually their fault. Selecting the right contractor is half of the job! And choosing the lowest quote is the surest way to undermine the quality of the job.

 

[oz-plumber]

The lowest quote doesn't mean the worst job in some situations.

I was asked to quote on job I didn't want, so I tried to quote myself out of it - simply by quoting 50% higher than I normally would for labour and materials.

Well I got the job and it was bad - but nowhere near as bad as I had anticipated.

Made some real good dough out of that one.

 

[Riley]

people have to get out of the frame of mind all tradesmen are trying to rip them off I take the points of the last few posters but you can read between the lines and pick up on the suspicious undertones. Why does something cost what it costs? Why can't the plumber match the prices I found on the Internet? I have seen on eBay that I can get a boiler install from £1200 Why is my Installer so much more expensive? The answer to all these questions is communication. An engineer quoting for the work for you should never mind answering questions A decent install will cost a decent amount of money simple as. The problem is people don't ask questions and then get angry when something isn't done as they expected. with the best will in the world we are gas engineers and can probably provide quite a lot of information we think would be relevant to you but we can't second-guess those nagging questions you might have. in most instances, unless I am working for a builder I will send my customer a full breakdown of the works to be carried out so that they know where I need to be and what I need to do. for example , access to the airing cupboard, access to the loft, access to the gas meter buried in the back of your garage , we will have to run a new gas carcass because.

I know the unexpected will crop up from time to time but then it is down to the installer and the customer to act like adults and work it out. Problem is this is when customers think the tradesmen is trying to rip them off when more often than not they aren't

The above is not a dig at the previous posters as I do see their point but often customers need to look past The cheap costs they find online to what an installer actually has to pay out it's not boiler on the wall job done.
We also have
fittings
pipe
inline descaler
inline filter
Power flush
Chemicals
Materials for making good flue holes
controls to bring in line with Part L
labour
12 month guarantee and follow up for any issues after installing if any
Then on top of it we have admin costs Van
insurance (van, pli)
Yearly accreditation (gas safe)
Renewing accreditation (every 5 years Gas safe, unvented etc)
calibration of flue analyser
Fuel
Labour you don't see like running to and from merchants for all materials for your job
labour after hours registering your boiler correctly with manufacturers and LBC
uniform
no doubt there're obvious ones I've missed but please don't think that everything you're charged over the top of the boiler goes straight in our pocket as it doesn't.