Ideal Icos

[md68]

Got called out to an ideal Icos yesterday. The couple had only moved in a week or so ago and they said the boiler was making a loud poping noise. So I opened it up to have a look inside & I found a right old mess. Still get to install a new boiler.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

insulation panels fallen on the burner its held in by the ionization probes which have failed,and diverted the flame trough the back wall of the boiler

 

[Blackcatgas]

Bloodyhell...:shocked:

 

[stevetheplumber]

i think a lot of boilers are not fit for pupose we have various makes failing regularly due to cheap build matierials im thinking worcester gaskets vailant combustion seals and ideals self destructing

 

[diamondgas]

krikey!!! That's some explosive ignition damage!!! Who need an axe?:wink:

 

[villa_tom]

Surely Ideal should get in a heap of trouble for this. I have seen this happen many times now as I used to work in social housing and there where whole estates full of them. Realistically these are bombs sitting in peoples kitchens just waiting to cause damage to property or even worse.

Ideal should be ashamed of what they have created and the team that designed it should be banned from working all together.

 

[md68]

Surely Ideal should get in a heap of trouble for this. I have seen this happen many times now as I used to work in social housing and there where whole estates full of them. Realistically these are bombs sitting in peoples kitchens just waiting to cause damage to property or even worse.

Ideal should be ashamed of what they have created and the team that designed it should be banned from working all together.

i've got to agree. Its a really bad bit of design. I am sure it looked ok on the drawing board but it doesnt work in the real world.

 

[villa_tom]

i've got to agree. Its a really bad bit of design. I am sure it looked ok on the drawing board but it doesnt work in the real world.

I don't think we'll find anyone who likes them, apart from Ideal themselves. I would rather have a 20mb gas leak in my house than one of those

 

[CES]

Ive seen that before, damn piles of crap. I honestly don't know how they got away with producing that for the mass market.

 

[hydrotherm]

Dont forget Warmfront who installed most of these Ideal piles of crap

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

krikey!!! That's some explosive ignition damage!!! Who need an axe?:wink:

its self destructed no axe required

 

[buckley plumb]

from what i can remember the new ideal logic has no insulation paneling

ant

 

[Gar73]

I am afraid to say its not down to a boiler fault, this boiler has not been serviced inline with manufacturers instructions. The Icos should be serviced every 12 months and the burner earth pins sould be checked to make sure they can make it through until the next service. If they can't they should be changed.

This boiler has simply not had the burner head removed and these items checked or replaced, as has been said the insulation panels collapse and the hex ends up being burnt through. Easy enough fix 3hrs and a new hex and serviced correctly in future rather than a quick £40 telegan check in 15 mins. As a former Ideal engineer I am speaking from experience look out for the m-series Isar and Isar in general. Make sure you catch your telegan early other wise on a hex like in the picture you will kill it quickly if you leave it in the flue outside while inside with the boiler. The Isar is without doubt a boiler that needs specific attention but the Icos is a good boiler as the pcb does not have the demands upon it like the isar combi does. Also factor in the fact the icos in generally generating less kw heat so its under less stress I.E 18kw Icos vs 35kw Isar.

A lot of all boiler releated issues could be avoided by flueing the boiler correctly as instructed, make sure the condensate gets away quickly, making sure the pre-electrical checks are correct and the boiler has the correct gas supply. In this case poor servicing by an engineer/engineers not to manufacturers specs resulted in the boiler failure, not a low quality boiler

 

[buckley plumb]

I am afraid to say its not down to a boiler fault, this boiler has not been serviced inline with manufacturers instructions. The Icos should be serviced every 12 months and the burner earth pins sould be checked to make sure they can make it through until the next service. If they can't they should be changed.

This boiler has simply not had the burner head removed and these items checked or replaced, as has been said the insulation panels collapse and the hex ends up being burnt through. Easy enough fix 3hrs and a new hex and serviced correctly in future rather than a quick £40 telegan check in 15 mins. As a former Ideal engineer I am speaking from experience look out for the m-series Isar and Isar in general. Make sure you catch your telegan early other wise on a hex like in the picture you will kill it quickly if you leave it in the flue outside while inside with the boiler. The Isar is without doubt a boiler that needs specific attention but the Icos is a good boiler as the pcb does not have the demands upon it like the isar combi does. Also factor in the fact the icos in generally generating less kw heat so its under less stress I.E 18kw Icos vs 35kw Isar.

A lot of all boiler releated issues could be avoided by flueing the boiler correctly as instructed, make sure the condensate gets away quickly, making sure the pre-electrical checks are correct and the boiler has the correct gas supply. In this case poor servicing by an engineer/engineers not to manufacturers specs resulted in the boiler failure, not a low quality boiler

hi gar73 being an ex ideal engineer can pick your brain.i went to an icos 2 years ago that was in a barn conversion(boiler 3 years old) it was working hard running underfloor heating and rads circuit . the boiler was serviced every year and the burner removed each time the problem was cleaning the secondard heat exchanger flue passege there is nothing in the manual about this .when i went to it i noticed what looked like gray flakes in the sump so i hovered it out with a thin attachment and cleaned as far as i could reach with a thin flue brush.the boiler always was spot on with the telegan but it started to make loud noises when firing all internal looked ok and the analyser read 0.0004. i eventualy removed the flue to find the secondary heat exchanger flue passage almost fully blocked with what looked like gray corn flakes - have you ever seen this and how is it possible to clean the flue way in the sec heat exchanger with out draining the boiler and stripping it fully apart.

thanks ant

 

[Gar73]

hi gar73 being an ex ideal engineer can pick your brain.i went to an icos 2 years ago that was in a barn conversion(boiler 3 years old) it was working hard running underfloor heating and rads circuit . the boiler was serviced every year and the burner removed each time the problem was cleaning the secondard heat exchanger flue passege there is nothing in the manual about this .when i went to it i noticed what looked like gray flakes in the sump so i hovered it out with a thin attachment and cleaned as far as i could reach with a thin flue brush.the boiler always was spot on with the telegan but it started to make loud noises when firing all internal looked ok and the analyser read 0.0004. i eventualy removed the flue to find the secondary heat exchanger flue passage almost fully blocked with what looked like gray corn flakes - have you ever seen this and how is it possible to clean the flue way in the sec heat exchanger with out draining the boiler and stripping it fully apart.

thanks ant

Hello ant

The grey flakes are the left overs from the condensing process, as a rule if the sump is full of these flakes and looks like it has what I call " Moon rock" in there then I would take the trap off clean it out and take a hard look at the condensate run, is there a slight blockage or trap on trap situation, is the fall away great enough.

In some cases I have boiled up a kettle and and poured it down the inner flue to clear it all out. This will flush away any issues into the sump and trap always clean the sump and trap and leave a little water in the bottom of the trap after cleaning and re-fitting. We were advised to save time to check the trap by pouring water into the sump and see if it ran away. I dont agree with this and believe the trap needs cleaning annually by removal.

Your analyser reading is spot on and what I would exspect to see from an Icos. They have no specific c02 readings but the norm for me on an Icos was 30-50ppm 8.5-9.5co2 and a ratio of less than 0.0010. Your noisey ignition is more difficult to pin point but I would look at the following the cheapest first. There a very clean burning boiler compared to there counterparts.

1. Condensate blockage
2. flue turret gasket inplace and intact
3. Ignition probes
4. tired spark gen/spark lead
5. Gas valve (incorrect off set) dont forget you should not adjust a Isar/Icos gas valve.

Remember if the ingnition probes are in a poor state then the flame sensing probe will likely need attention as well asthe burner earth pins.

I hope the above helps.

 

[buckley plumb]

thanks gar73 i never thought of pouring water down the flue.when i went on the logic course the recomend flushing the heat exchanger. i changed that icos in the barn conversion as the turret had rotted and the new fitted icos has been running fine.I hate removing the trap on the icos where the condense pipe is in the plastered wall they are very tight and the issar well i can never get my big hands into them.have you any tips on replacing the sump seal i have seen a few weeping .to be honest i dont mind working on ideals -the diverter cartridge on the issar is a doddle -pumps are expensive though.

ant

 

[Gar73]

The sump plate seal if were talking about the same one is simply 3 bolts an inspection plate and a rubber gasket. If you mean the trap seal, drop the trap and replace chances are leaks from that area are from the rubber hose that connects to the trap. There should be an o'ring behind the rubber hose lip where the nut pulls upto. Everyone puts the o'ring between the trap face and and rubber hose which is wrong.

Everyone hates removing the trap on the Isar/Icos they sorted it on the logic. The other sign of poor servicing along wiith a poor condensate run is where the trap meets the sump it has rotten through. You need a new hex because the condensate has pooled there and eaten it away.

 

[buckley plumb]

seen them leak from where the sump bolts to the heat exchanger looks a nightmare to do

ant

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

ideal =nightmare =axe end off argument,but i do agree if its serviced properly then this fault should not happen,on the other hand ideal posted this issue up as a tb in the old corgi mag,its a weak design,and alot of the parts on the icos/isar are IMHO

 

[Gar73]

seen them leak from where the sump bolts to the heat exchanger looks a nightmare to do

ant

I think I know where you mean now, if it leaks from the gap between the sump and hex, change the whole hex.

 

[villa_tom]

seen them leak from where the sump bolts to the heat exchanger looks a nightmare to do

ant

I have seen then leak from the pump, plate heat ex, main heat ex, condense trap, diverter valve. Basically any water carrying part. Given time they would probably leak from the PCB:tongue3:

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I have seen then leak from the pump, plate heat ex, main heat ex, condense trap, diverter valve. Basically any water carrying part. Given time they would probably leak from the PCB:tongue3:

it was the pcb bit that got me:clap:,not wishing to offend its easy for a ex ideal service engineer to defend the product,after all they have one up on us one man bands a van full of spares its much harder when you dont and its luck of the draw if you get someone helpful at ideal,and its not funny working on the icos it is crap,but i will say so is the baxi solo he(why dont baxi drop it?)

 

[villa_tom]

it was the pcb bit that got me:clap:,not wishing to offend its easy for a ex ideal service engineer to defend the product,after all they have one up on us one man bands a van full of spares its much harder when you dont and its luck of the draw if you get someone helpful at ideal,and its not funny working on the icos it is crap,but i will say so is the baxi solo he(why dont baxi drop it?)

I dont touch them at all now. When I get phone calls for my own work if they say its a ideal isar/icos I just tell them I don't touch them. And during the week when I subcontract I have a "gentlemans agreement " not to do them.

I worked in social housing for 4 years and worked on them loads and hated them - it got to the stage where we all basically had a spare for each part of these boilers and just changed parts untill they worked if we couldn't find the fault.

To be fair to ideal I have never had a problem with them on their phone line but I have never had to phone them much as like I say we used to carry literally a spare boiler in the back of the van.

But I really for the life of me can't see how a boiler manufacturer can get away with making a product like this!