Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?!

[peter4321]

Hello,

I'm having a 'little' dispute with my builder, mainly over his project management. I think his bizarre scheduling has meant we paid way over the odds for plumbing services - and ended up with something a bit rubbish.

We've had a ground-floor extension built so the back room is now three metres longer than it used to be. And we've got two new radiators, one each side of the room, near the new back of the house.

Problem was that the concrete floor was poured (and the walls were plastered) before the plumbers came to install pipes for the radiators. So the plumbers ran the pipes along one wall, then dug a trench through the new concrete to reach the other wall, then ran pipes along there.

It then took quite a lot of self-levelling compound to sort out the floor over several days. And my skirting boards are about 90mm thick to conceal the pipes.

Is this normal? Or should the pipes have gone across the floor before the concrete was poured? And should they have gone into the wall blocks before it was plastered?

Would be nice to check if he messed up before I start throwing accusations around...

Thanks very much,
Peter

 

[SimonG]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Depends what was agreed. Do the rads work?

 

[peter4321]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Yes, the rads work.

As to what was agreed... We didn't discuss how the pipes would run, just where the rads would go. I assumed (yes, I know - shouldn't assume) that it would be done in a sensible way.

I'm just asking if this counts as sensible or whether it's more like a botch job because it should have been done in a different order.

 

[SimonG]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Other ways to do it. But if nothing agreed! Builder would be in a hurry and didnt give time or plumber said crack and i'll make it work. Recently did two rads in an extension. Builder left me a channel to run pipes in. Easy.

 

[Riley]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Sadly if nothing agreed then nothing's wrong. I hate exposed pipework but each to their own. Maybe discuss your concerns with him and say that you're disappointed with the look

 

[MOSSEP]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

I can see your point, and I guess you would assume that the builder and plumber would install it in a way that did not require lots of boxing in and chasing up of a new floor. Its most likely a lack of communication between the 2 of them, and maybe no interest in creating the tidiest of jobs that they could.

 

[rpm]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

. And my skirting boards are about 90mm thick to conceal the pipes.

This I`ve got to see!
Any photo`s please.

 

[peter4321]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

But don't just laugh at the size of the skirting boards - there's the ingeniously located power socket too.

Is it fair to say that a well-managed project wouldn't have ended up looking like this?

I'm not quibbling about the fact that it all works - just that it's a bit silly, and that with a bit of simple scheduling, this could have been avoided.

Also - is it normal to lay the pipe across the floor before pouring the concrete?

 

[Best]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

If the builder took on all the work then I would blame him 100%.
And even if you supplied your plumbers, I would still blame the builder for not ensuring the plumbing was put in at the correct stage.
He should have arranged that the plumbers would have the pipes done in a decent way.
It is as simple as this, - at every stage of building work, all electrics, ducting, ventilation, sewer & waste pipes, water and heating pipes all have to be ticked off as being finished for that stage before concrete or screed floors, plaster boarding and plastering is done.

 

[Best]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Looks ridiculous for a brand new building job!
The socket position just speaks for itself. Obviously the electrician and plumbers were not working to a proper arranged plan of where exactly things should be.
That rad appears to be too close down to the boxing and air will not circulate around the rad properly as well as it looks wrong. Means the rad will not work as well as it should.

 

[rpm]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

But don't just laugh at the size of the skirting boards - there's the ingeniously located power socket too.
View attachment 26183

Emm! Is that boxing all around the room? And as for the sockets well ............

 

[rpm]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Have to admit if I walked in the room and saw that I`d think DIY.

 

[Best]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Have to admit if I walked in the room and saw that I`d think DIY.

Or builder.

 

[Best]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Pipes nowadays are supposed to be in ducts if they were to be fitted in the floor.
Concrete floor could be done first (it is the strength) and then ducts could be put into screed when it is done later.
If you haven't paid the builder his full money, then all you can do is keep some off it if the builder is responsible. Likely a very big job to hide the pipes now

 

[SimonG]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Well its not how I pictured it. Did you get your certs for the electrics?

 

[gmartine]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

I'd rather have the piping showing (if neatly done) than that size of boxing.

 

[chris watkins]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

I'd rather have the piping showing (if neatly done) than that size of boxing.

And you would have smaller rads.

 

[gassed up]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Boxing didn't need to come out that far if the pipes were run along the wall, could've got away with 30-40mm.

 

[rpm]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Boxing didn't need to come out that far if the pipes were run along the wall, could've got away with 30-40mm.

But we don`t know what size batons the builder has used probably 2" x 1" there lol.

 

[Riley]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

It's just a total lack of care. If they wanted it out of sight then you can buy skirting board that hides pipe I used something like this to hide 15mm pipe with minimal effort they will make it to order and is inexpensive

 

[AlexGas]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Any more pics, please?

 

[rpm]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Office refurb companies use or used to use it for the cat cables with junction boxes fitted.

 

[Riley]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

But don't just laugh at the size of the skirting boards - there's the ingeniously located power socket too.

Is it fair to say that a well-managed project wouldn't have ended up looking like this?

I'm not quibbling about the fact that it all works - just that it's a bit silly, and that with a bit of simple scheduling, this could have been avoided.

Also - is it normal to lay the pipe across the floor before pouring the concrete?


View attachment 26183

How does the radiator create a convection current with the boxing flush up against the bottom

 

[chris watkins]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

How does the radiator create a convection current with the boxing flush up against the bottom

Good spot Riley, that is a classic !!

And it does look like it goes right under the the length of the rad, get ready for a cold extension next winter OP.

What do we recon thats about 70% of the rad output gone??

Manufacturers ask for a minimum of 100mm clear to the floor below the rad.

Still on the plus side you won't get much dust & fluff stuck inside the casings of those compacts LOL. :tongue3:

 

[Radioman]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

I would insist the socket was moved, the boxing removed and the pipe work correctly installed using the skirting above. Get a separate estimate from an electrician and plumber then hold back that amount plus a % for inconvenience. Put it in writing, give him 7 days to respond, if negative response, go to small claims.
Unless of course you have signed something in writing from the builder that gave him authority to do as he wished. Even so as has been said, those rads won't work.

Ps I am surprised Building Controls signed that off, did you get a certificate from the electrician?

 

[peter4321]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Thank you to all those who gave advice and opinions on this. Much appreciated.

It'll be much easier to have a proper discussion with the builder now I have a better idea of what would normally happen.

Building Control have signed off the job as a whole - fairly minimal inspection internally as far as I'm aware. We haven't got the electrician's certificate yet but intend to chase this up.

 

[oz-plumber]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

When you are speaking to the builder, get an installation diagram from the radiator manufacturer.
Make sure the diagram shows the minimum unobstructed clearance from the bottom of the panel/

You have double panels installed, and ( from memory ) the radiation of heat is something like 50% and the heat achieved form convection is 50%.
Single panels are something like 70% radiation and 30% convection.

You will have very minimal convection, so the panels are, more or less, less than 50% of their output.

It is a problem that should be sorted short term because, the longer it goes, the harder it will be to have the problem rectified.

All the basic information should be available from the radiators manufacturers website.

On top of that - the boxing looks absolutely woeful.

 

[plumben]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

I prefer to run all pipe work above ground in boxing in, but the boxing in only needs to be 30mm usually, and sometimes less if you can get straight onto brick/block before plastered makes future repairs/work easier as everything is accessible, but this just looks ridiculous

 

[quality]

Re: Is this really how two radiators should be installed in a ground-floor extension?

Ive never understood this boxing in pipes cause at the end of the day there is a great big radiator on show anyway. neat pipework is a must but that should be standard for any trades man