Keston C55

[Bill Lewens]

Hi

Hoping that some of you guys will be able to help. I work for a small hotel group in the South West and we have been experiencing some real issues with a rig of 2 C55s installed in 2009. The rig runs around 24 en suites (mainly thermostatic mixer showers and the odd bath) on a pressurised system via a 400 litre tank with single internal coil, some central heating, with a view to eventually running a radiator in every room and a kitchen doing around 80 covers.

The issues include the following:

• Both heat exchangers shot
• Both control boards shot
• One fan shot
• Any number of replacement thermal fuses
• Both internal flue pipes shot

The real pain is that we have just had an identical rig installed for the other half of the hotel, (similar size, no kitchen) replacing an old Ideal Concord and two Andrews water heaters and I think this may well have been a mistake.

I have read a number of the threads regarding Keston, but would appreciate it if I could get some feedback from users and installers regarding their Keston experience. I am guessing from what else is out there this will be mainly negative but would be interested to see if anyone has had positive experiences.

We are discussing the way forward from here, including the possibility of installing something different (hopefully better!) so would also appreciate any advice as to what is available that would be suitable. Fluing is a slight issue so would probably have to be something with similar flue arrangement.

Thanks for reading and look forward to your responses.

Bill

 

[Millsy 82]

Not the best boilers in the world. The last company I worked for took on a contract with loads of them and they all had problems but 1 had major problems and it needed a new heat ex and pcb it needed to be running as it was a care home so we fitted one to get them going until they could replace the boiler.

The reason they fitted them was because you could run the flue miles but they regretted it completely. I would recommend replacing as and when they pack up as its not worth spending £1000 plus on repairing a boiler. (Cant remember how much it came to but I believe the heat ex was around £900+VAT plus 3-4 hours to fit and then the PCB on top)

 

[Bill Lewens]

Thanks Millsy, sadly no prizes for being first in but I do appreciate your time in replying.

I would say that if you do have a Keston (or 4 in our case!) it is worth looking at their Fixed Price Repair Service if/when it packs up, from our experience it is usually a lot cheaper than buying in the bits through an engineer. Fixed Price is £275 including parts, labour and VAT for everything bar the heat exchanger which is an extra £350. Given that a Fan is £300+ plus labour, a Control board the same and a heat exchanger £700+ plus labour they are worth a look if, as with us, you just have to get them up and running.

 

[Barry98]

Thanks Millsy, sadly no prizes for being first in but I do appreciate your time in replying.

I would say that if you do have a Keston (or 4 in our case!) it is worth looking at their Fixed Price Repair Service if/when it packs up, from our experience it is usually a lot cheaper than buying in the bits through an engineer. Fixed Price is £275 including parts, labour and VAT for everything bar the heat exchanger which is an extra £350. Given that a Fan is £300+ plus labour, a Control board the same and a heat exchanger £700+ plus labour they are worth a look if, as with us, you just have to get them up and running.

Nice plug for them

 

[BLOD]

The fixed price repair can be a good deal, but if their engineer can't get to you for 2 weeks (and we had this a couple of years ago in the height of winter) then your hotel will be pretty cold and your customers will go somewhere warmer.
For what it's worth I'd go with milsys advice and fit something different as your way forward.

 

[Reg Man]

Andrews water heaters were probably more suitable for this installation. The new ECOflo spec looks very good especially for high capacity water demand. Keston unfortunately have not been as reliable as some people would have expected and the replacement parts seem to be on the pricey side. I can see this has left you in a bit of a spot. Do you throw more expense in keeping what you've got? or do you bite the bullet and look at a system change? I am not sure how long a fixed price repair service is available. I recently had a local Hotel contact me because there service and maintenance provider had pulled out stating that the Keston boilers were to old for them to continue the service. They were about 6 years old.

 

[stevetheplumber]

keestons get fitted mainly for the flue versatility personally ive found them unreliable and keestons themselves unhelpfull i hate to say it but id be looking to get them on a service contract

 

[Killy Bing]

Where are the kestons installed?

 

[buckley plumb]

worked on quite a few kestons and all have had the problems you described as well as pump issues air vent / and exhaust flue spliting

 

[Bill Lewens]

Got two rigs, both located in their own plant rooms. Older pair in very small lean to affair outside rear of building which is on the seafront. This pair have what seems an unneccessarily complicated flue run of around 7 metres of straight pipe plus 7 bends. Please dont ask me why, a more straitforward route is available. Also flues are located on a different wall to air intakes which are behind a windbreak. Dont think this is the best arrangement.

 

[Bill Lewens]

Thanks Steve. we are looking at options at the moment and I am having both systems inspected later this week by an independant engineer who is commercially Gas Safe, but a service contract may be a short term option, although the guy from Ideal who has been here has suggested they would need 2 if not 3 services a year at a total cost of £1400 to £2100 a year! Would a service contract be any cheaper realistically?

 

[Bill Lewens]

Forgot to say that part of the reason for these rigs going in was to "future proof" us against expected future central heating demand as not all rooms have rads at the moment. Done some calculations this morning which suggest we each rig needs around 85kw for heating with no allowance made for heat loss through pipes (it is a big building). Both rigs have a 400 litre Keston Spa attached for hot water which I think need around 25kw for the coil for optimum recovery time. Any comments on this also appreciated.

Thanks to all for your assistance so far.

 

[Bill Lewens]

Bod

Not a plug, honestly. Just wanted other users (victims?) to have the info as it could save them a significant sum of money if, like us, you just HAVE to get the things working. In our case around £2500 worth of spares have been supplied and installed for half that using the Fixed Price Repair Service.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'd be looking at replacing them with Atag boilers. Have a look at ATAG Boilers | High quality condensing boilers

they are properly built and can offer all sorts of flueing options.

 

[PhoenixServices]

The only keston I have fitted, has since leaked like a sieve and eaten through its electrics and flue. That's all in 2.5 years. I would personally get a few commercial guys to price replacements for the older ones and put the new ones on a service contract when the warranty runs outs. Till you get a bit of your money's worth out of them.

 

[Bill Lewens]

The only keston I have fitted, has since leaked like a sieve and eaten through its electrics and flue. That's all in 2.5 years. I would personally get a few commercial guys to price replacements for the older ones and put the new ones on a service contract when the warranty runs outs. Till you get a bit of your money's worth out of them.

Thanks, sounds like good advice that we will definitely consider. Have had a couple of commercial guys look both have suggested Hoval as possible replacement, premium to buy but very reliable by all accounts. Have started looking but so far found no one with any real bad experiences. Thoughts anyone?

 

[happyflyer]

Bill,

As someone as said the Keston is really sold for the unique flu arrangement (go anywhere) my opinion of them I can't type here, you do need to change your system to having the hot water totally separate from the heating it makes some sense, was there a special flue requirement for this job in the first place or would any boiler set have done, maybe some photos of the installation would help , take notice what he says, PhoenixServices I would be even harder on them, I am a consulting engineer and I wouldn't be specifying them ever, fancy flu or not. Hoval not so sure there are more ways than one to kill a pig, your are going to need a lot of money with Hoval, be selling you bio mass next, just get a few peopleto advise you

 

[dancinplumba]

Kestons are now ideal logics, still carp but better than older ones

 

[RoryD]

The only saving grace with Kestons is that they have one of the most helpful helpdesks I've encountered. A helpful helpdesk??? Some irony in there somewhere!!

 

[Dotty]

Thanks, sounds like good advice that we will definitely consider. Have had a couple of commercial guys look both have suggested Hoval as possible replacement, premium to buy but very reliable by all accounts. Have started looking but so far found no one with any real bad experiences. Thoughts anyone?

Hoval are very good assuming they're talking about the topgas range. my preference would be for the 80 range rather than the 30-60 range because of issues with pressure sensors.

 

[Millsy 82]

The only saving grace with Kestons is that they have one of the most helpful helpdesks I've encountered. A helpful helpdesk??? Some irony in there somewhere!!

Are you sure? I found them useless but this was Ideal that I spoke to so not sure how long they had taken them over for. All I asked was does the heat exchanger come with all gaskets etc needed for fitting. The answer was yes. The real answer was no not a thing just a heat exchanger.

 

[RoryD]

Are you sure? I found them useless but this was Ideal that I spoke to so not sure how long they had taken them over for. All I asked was does the heat exchanger come with all gaskets etc needed for fitting. The answer was yes. The real answer was no not a thing just a heat exchanger.

Wasn't aware of the takeover, it was last year (the last time) and it definitely was keston.