LPG instant hot water boiler advice

[chris1234]

Hi,

I'm trying to setup a campsite and need to provide a shower and 2 or 3 sinks for the compost toilets and kitchen area. The field has a 1/2" water supply but no electric.

I had thought of using a horse shower that runs off a LPG bottle but I'm guessing that will only cope with the shower outlet and I can't simply plumb in the sinks to run them all off it?

I have come across this boiler on amazon and wonder if this would be up for the job - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07CVCWZSK/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

I have seen these boilers in various sizes some 6L and the one I've linked to 18L is the biggest capacity I've seen, does the 18L capacity mean that it can cope with more outlets or will it only be any good with just the one shower outlet?

Would I be better off using multiple horse showers for the each sink and shower?

Would a boiler that is used in a static caravan be suitable?

Do you have any other recommendations on how I can do this?

Thanks for any advice

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Worcester green spring

Yours isn’t acceptable

 

[Rob Foster]

I really think if this is a public venue especially with Propane as a power source you need to be qualified to design it, qualified to install it and probably licenced by the local authority to operate it ...whom will need all the certification above and more before you can move on....provide background and I am sure my fellows on UKPF will
give you plenty of really good practical upto date advice
The compost bogs might not be regulated ...not sure and then what are your plans for the greywater effluent ...it will need to be managed properly

Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[chris1234]

Thank you for your replies, I take on board what you've said and will arrange for a qualified plumber to come and install a proper solution.

Just for my understanding from what I've read most household taps run from 15mm pipe and the minimum water pressure supplied in UK is 1bar so should get around 9 litres per minute water flow (What is the minimum water pressure that a water supplier must supply?) in most houses you can run 2 hot water taps or a mixer shower and a hot water tap (albeit at slower rate) so surely if a boiler is rated at 18litres/min like the one I linked to previously on Amazon then surely it can run a shower and another tap or two?

When I've looked for LPG water heaters there seems to be a lot that are rated at 6, 10 & 12 litres per minute Static Caravan LPG Water Heaters and Boilers. Forcali, Morco, Cointra used in static caravans and surely they're capable of running more than 1 hot outlets?

Just noticed this on Amazon that says in the item description that it will supply 2 outlets and one of the reviewer's say they're using 2 outlets - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Camplux-Ta...words=camplux&qid=1564122093&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Thanks again for any advice

 

[Rob Foster]

If it where me, and I have produced these systems before.
Introduce intermediate level storage for the showers and direct mains for the kitchen.
Get a second hand commutated orange juice container capacity approx 1500 to 2000 litres put on a podium, they are black and heat up readily in the sun, fit a demand pump from solar and battery to put water thro heater and get it over 60c. If you want to go this way I dont mind helping design it...others will have their ideas
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[king of pipes]

Get a Intergas rapid boiler converted to lpg it will cope with 2 outlets fit restrictors to 6- litres a minute on the shower head and on the hot taps , the water temperature in the ground this time of year is easily raised to 55 - 60 degrees , the shower should be through a TMV3 and have a push button to allow timed showering you will need a power supply though and the boiler must be housed in a water proof no combustible structure, this work must be carried out by a GSI and all relevent regulations abided to . Regards kop

 

[Brambles]

If your site is in England and less than 5 acres you will need a licence from your local authority. If it is over five acres you can have three tents for less than 28 days a year without a licence.

At the point of licence application the Local Authority will advise whether or not you require planning permission or a change of use application. If that is deemed to be the case a licence application cannot be progressed until the relevant approvals are in place.

A licence ( in Oxon) costs around £300

Once awarded the licence will set out the requirements on LGP storage and use, provision of lavatories and washing facilities, water for fire fighting, sale of food and drink on site - distance between pitches, storage, collection and disposal of refuse.

It will also set out the rules on how the site can be advertised and charges that must be clearly displayed et al.

If you are required to provide washing and toilet facilities, building regulations will apply.

I would be very wary of undertaking any preparation works before consulting with the local authority - if nothing else to ensure that the proposed business will attract business rate relief at the highest level.

In Oxfordshire, they will not allow earth or composting toilets. They are either connected to the main sewage system or into a water treatment facility with the clean water disposed of into a drainage field ( not a soakaway)

Be aware that (oddly in my view) operating a campsite without a licence is a criminal offence in England.

Apologies if you already know this is - but in my case, the provision of hot water for a 40 pitch campsite was the least of the issues to be addressed !!

 

[Rob Foster]

If your site is in England and less than 5 acres you will need a licence from your local authority. If it is over five acres you can have three tents for less than 28 days a year without a licence.

At the point of licence application the Local Authority will advise whether or not you require planning permission or a change of use application. If that is deemed to be the case a licence application cannot be progressed until the relevant approvals are in place.

A licence ( in Oxon) costs around £300

Once awarded the licence will set out the requirements on LGP storage and use, provision of lavatories and washing facilities, water for fire fighting, sale of food and drink on site - distance between pitches, storage, collection and disposal of refuse.

It will also set out the rules on how the site can be advertised and charges that must be clearly displayed et al.

If you are required to provide washing and toilet facilities, building regulations will apply.

I would be very wary of undertaking any preparation works before consulting with the local authority - if nothing else to ensure that the proposed business will attract business rate relief at the highest level.

In Oxfordshire, they will not allow earth or composting toilets. They are either connected to the main sewage system or into a water treatment facility with the clean water disposed of into a drainage field ( not a soakaway)

Be aware that (oddly in my view) operating a campsite without a licence is a criminal offence in England.

Apologies if you already know this is - but in my case, the provision of hot water for a 40 pitch campsite was the least of the issues to be addressed !!

Wow...what a reply ..blown away no compost thank you
chking

 

[king of pipes]

Well I think Brambles had just about covered everything I hope he's not shot you down in flames seems to be alot of hoops to jump through to get up and running ??. Regards kop

 

[Rob Foster]

As a general observation it never ceases to amaze me the sheer power of UKPF..the wealth of information I have accquired over the years far out weighs my input ..in fact I do not think my business would be as good as it is without this forum...and this thread is an exemplar of just that ..onwards and upwards...Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Brambles]

There was no intent to suppress anyones enthusiasm to develop a camp site.

When I hit on the idea 10 years ago, I was stunned by the rules and regulations. We get visits from the local food hygiene inspectors two or three times a year.

They treat a 40 pitch camp site as having the same food and hygiene risk as 40 bed hotel.

The difference being we charge £13.50 / night and the local hotels £80!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There was no intent to suppress anyones enthusiasm to develop a camp site.

When I hit on the idea 10 years ago, I was stunned by the rules and regulations. We get visits from the local food hygiene inspectors two or three times a year.

They treat a 40 pitch camp site as having the same food and hygiene risk as 40 bed hotel.

The difference being we charge £13.50 / night and the local hotels £80!!

? But dong think the op is supplying food / serving

 

[Millsy 82]

I was asked to do hot water for some luxury jobs I didnt get the job as I refused to fit the lpg water heaters that he wanted out in the open air.

What I suggested to him was why not build a timber frame building and install solar panels on the roof to an unvented cylinder as it was only to be used during summer months this would cope 90% of the time the rest boosted with immersion.

Wont be the cheapest optionthough

 

[Brambles]

Shaun,

Apologies, I was not very clear - as soon as the first hot food / burger van / fish and chip van comes onto site - the Food Hygiene Regulations apply for the next 12 months.

It’s a bl**dy nightnare!!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun,

Apologies, I was not very clear - as soon as the first hot food / burger van / fish and chip van comes onto site - the Food Hygiene Regulations apply for the next 12 months.

It’s a bl**dy nightnare!!

but wouldnt it be onto the supplier eg the owner of the van for food safety and that lot?

 

[Brambles]

Shaun,

That would be my logic too. The rules apply to both the operator (licence holder of the camp site) and the fast food vendor.

In reality it is not an issue - if you know the rules, it is straightforward to put process and procedures in place to ensure that you comply.

I guess rather like Gas Safe.

The point of my original post was that to establish a campsite is not as straightforward as you would perhaps expect.

In our case, the expenditure was £5,800 before the the first pitch arrived on site. I thought it was going to be £600.

Having said all that, I can now see why there needs to be the level of rules and regulations in place to make sites safe and attractive.

I just wish I could charge a little bit more for each pitch.

No regrets though, I have met some great people who have come to stay - it’s a pity that they want 240v and 4g too though!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

sounds backwards so normal for authority 😀