New boiler or service old one ?

[slasher]

Hi

Just looking for some advise of which I would really appreciate

Have a ideal miniser ff30 9KW boiler which was installed in the house when we moved in in 1997 (yes I know the reputation they have..... but it's lasted 15 years so far LOL)

Never had the system serviced apart from once about 10 years ago which the burner was cleaned (full of pollen) as there was a problem with it lighting (yes I know it should have been serviced more but how many peolple do)

Some of the raditors were not all getting hot at the bottom so I guessed they were full of sludge

I put in Sentinel X400 & turned on the system for 2 days boiler sounded much quieter after 2nd day running

The F&E tank was full of sludge which I emptied & cleaned out

1 of the Pump gate valves was leaking, the valve had rusted itself to the pump so I replaced the pump, as there was no way it was going to come off

The Flaxco Air vent on the cylinder was dribbling so I changed that also with a new one

Raditators were full of sludge & have all been flushed though with a hose in the garden

The F&E has been refilled & drained, the CH pipes have all been drained until the water was clear

I refilled the system including Sentinel X100

Boiler will no longer light, is there a chance it could be sludge in the boiler?

When I started the boiler I could hear water gushing into the pipes going to the boiler as though there could be air in them

In light of the lack of servicing.......is it worth bothering getting a someone to look at it or would you say don't bother & just put in a new boiler?

Thanks in advance

Dave

 

[JCplumb]

To be fair a boiler that has lasted 15 years without regular servicing may be at the end of its life - but I have known 30yr old boilers.
At the end of the day it's a punt. Spend a little to get it fixed in the hope that it lasts another few years, or spend a considerable amount more to replace it.
You never know, it may just need a service. Without looking at it, no-one can advise you 100%

 

[slasher]

To be fair a boiler that has lasted 15 years without regular servicing may be at the end of its life - but I have known 30yr old boilers.
At the end of the day it's a punt. Spend a little to get it fixed in the hope that it lasts another few years, or spend a considerable amount more to replace it.
You never know, it may just need a service. Without looking at it, no-one can advise you 100%

Many Thanks JCplumb

Yeh that's what I thought

I think I really should cut my losses, no point throwing money at dead wood, I did have some issues with it lighting recently I could just open a can a worms LOL

Anyway been looking at boilers

WB Greenstar 12Ri
or
WB Greenstar 15Ri
Vaillant ecoTEC plus 415 open vent
Viessmann 100W 13 compact

I know all installers have there own preference

What are the serviceable parts cost like on these boilers, which company parts which are generally the lowest

Reliability is it pot luck or down to a good install & pot luck ?

I live in a very hard water area are any of these more suitable for hard water areas

From reading the tech info on the Vaillant website.....the Vaillant seams to be more technically advanced or is that just marketing at work to make it sound better than it is?

Don't mind paying extra if it's worth it

Thanks again in advance

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'd certainly think about replacing it and having the new boiler regularly serviced. Have you got an engineer in mind, it's always worth chatting to them about their preferences.

I'm a great fan of Atag boilers but they're not the prettiest boilers on the market so not ideally suited if they're on show in a kitchen.

 

[TBServices]

Vaillant have excellent fault finding and diagnostics built in. Good features and good reliability. One of the few boilers that are full of brass and not plastic. good looking too.

Sounds like you've done well out the boiler you have, I would consider a replacement.


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[TBServices]

Also, it's not pot luck. Pay for a good quality install and the boiler will last longer and be more reliable. Fact.


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[slasher]

Many Thanks Mike & TB

Mike .....The Atag boliers look like they are built like a tank with the apperance, pitty it is going in the Kitchen as I would probably have gone with that one 🙁

I've just had a Fernox TF1 £70.00 delivered which I'll get installed with the new boiler

TB.....Would you say £1300 ish was the right price for a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 415 installed with powerflush (22mm pipes already in place)? or should I expect to pay more?

 

[anz]

Have you considered upgrading the system, instead of just the boiler.

You could have a system boiler and a sealed heating system, it should last longer.

I'd also recommend upgrading your radiator valves and installing TRVs at the same time.

Obviously there are risks and added costs when upgrading but you might think that the benefits make it worth while.

I agree with above, don't just go for the cheapest quote, go for quality and you should have a system that lasts longer. Also remember to have your new boiler serviced annually to maintain its warranty.

 

[TBServices]

I agree with Anz. I would suggest losing the tanks and switching to a pressurised system.


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[slasher]

mmm now there's food for thought

What benefit will I get from a system boiler over open vented boiler apart from the boiler that may last longer

I already have TRV installed on the rads upstairs

What extra cost will this involve approx to change the to a system boiler?

Our hot water pressure isn't great so would a system boiler be of benefit by increasing the HW pressure?

Thanks so much for taking time to answer

 

[mfgs]

Its impossible for us to say how much the job would cost without seeing it. I agree a new boiler is best, have a call around to 3 or 4 of your local engineers and get them to give you a quote.

 

[TBServices]

mmm now there's food for thought

What benefit will I get from a system boiler over open vented boiler apart from the boiler that may last longer

I already have TRV installed on the rads upstairs

What extra cost will this involve approx to change the to a system boiler?

Our hot water pressure isn't great so would a system boiler be of benefit by increasing the HW pressure?

Thanks so much for taking time to answer

It's a sealed system so once it's full, it's full. No more adding of fresh water means no oxygen in the system and less corrosion/sludge. The system should also perform a bit better and you can get rid of the f+e tank. It's a fairly easy job to seal the system, the cost is not something we could guess at.

It will have not effect on your HW performance as the two circuits are separate.


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[slasher]

Many thanks to all for your advise it is appreciated

 

[TBServices]

Where abouts are you located? Might be worth posting in the plumber wanted section of the forum, see if you can get a quotation from one of the members?


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[JeffD]

Even if you go to pressurised system the pipe work and rads want power flushing as a minimum,

ajdgas.com

 

[DaveTidy]

Hi

Looking at your first post the boiler, although old, was working fine. Until someone takes a look at it, it may just be the system that needs some updating.

I've worked on many minimisers over the years and once they have the modsand are set up right they aren't too bad. Lockout generally occurs when you have lots of air or corrosion and you have just introduced a lot of air into the boiler.

If the boilerfine and it is already an efficent condesing boiler why change it?

Arrange a visit from a recommend so you don't just get a new boiler for th sake of it.

 

[slasher]

Hi

Looking at your first post the boiler, although old, was working fine. Until someone takes a look at it, it may just be the system that needs some updating.

I've worked on many minimisers over the years and once they have the modsand are set up right they aren't too bad. Lockout generally occurs when you have lots of air or corrosion and you have just introduced a lot of air into the boiler.

If the boilerfine and it is already an efficent condesing boiler why change it?

Arrange a visit from a recommend so you don't just get a new boiler for th sake of it.

Hi DaveTidy

Thanks for your reply

Sorry I didn't reply sooner,
When I started the boiler from draining the system, I can hear water gushing into the boiler but it won't light, tried about 8-10 times already but the gushing of water doesn't seam to stop into the flow pipe so it could be air

In the past I have had many time the Boiler has played up & won't light 1st time but I was told this was due to a build up of pollen on the burner that I should have had cleaned but neglected to sort it out 🙁

I'll call the guy that came last time, see if he say's it's worth sorting as he got it running the last time I had an issue, the issue with the air in the pipe I'm guessing could be the issue

I'll update you once I've got him to look at it

Many thanks for your time

Slasher

 

[hammers4spanner]

if you upgrade then i would stay away from a combi imo

 

[arran197]

You could go down the pressurised route, but you always run the risk of the existing pipework leaking. If you want to do it cheaply, invest in the system and have it flushed properly, get a good boiler fitted as a direct replacement and keep on top of the inhibitor and system cleaning.

 

[slasher]

Well thought I would update this thread - through recommendation from 2 companies I went for a Vaillant 418 fitted with powerflush for £1400 including a 7 year warranty - also had a tf1 fitted

My old boiler was a 10KW unit the new one is 18KW

The installer recommended setting the rad water temp to 73°C - the room stat set to 21°C - but found that the room temp was getting too cool before the boiler would re-light

The heat was uncomfortable

I've turned the temp on the boiler down to 58°C & it's keeping the heat in the rooms much better even with the room stat set to 21°C

I don't think any of the "D" settings on the boiler have been changed - would you recommend turning down the "D0" output setting bearing in mind the power output is almost double to the old one to get the boiler running at it most efficient - house is a 2 bed end terrace built in 1997

Rads are bog standard Stelrad elite

[TABLE="width: 227"]
[TR]
[TD]Back bedroom[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3364[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]top of stairs[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1047[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]bathroom[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1365[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]front bedroom[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2883[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]lounge rad 1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4852[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]lounge rad 2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2426[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]hallway[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1365[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kitchen[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2426[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]toilet[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]1047[/TD]
[TD]btu/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20775[/TD]
[TD]total[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 291"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD][/TD]
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[slasher]

Have converted the total to KW & it means I only have a total of just over 6KW CH the hallway rad is always off so that would take it down to below 6KW

The stat is in the hallway & the lounge doesn't get as hot if the hall way rad is on

Have now change the D0 setting down to 10 would it be worth going lower say down to 8 bearing in mind only need around 6KW CH + 20% ?

Have also changed the Rad water temp to 60°C as I read convection only occurs at 60°C or above?