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Plumber who did not fit boiler flue correctly found guilty slaughter

View the thread, titled "Plumber who did not fit boiler flue correctly found guilty slaughter" which is posted in Boiler Advice Forum on UK Plumbers Forums.

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Puddle

I don't know about the CO levels in new gas boilers, but if I fit a new oil boiler and it has more than 20ppm of CO then I'd be on to the manufacturers. Presumably a new gas boiler has less than 100ppm when new? If so, how come the CO killed the girl? Maybe it was a mix of CO and CO2. Trouble is we never know the whole story - the case was a number of days and has been summarised into a few paragraphs.

It seems to me that this new boiler wasn't made properly but the poor blighter who stuffed it in was the one who took the blame.

Earlier in the case the prosecution was arguing that the gases escaped from a 25mm gap in the flue and ran up the waste pipe and into the bathroom. Perhaps the trap was empty? Perhaps there was no real gap but someone found the screws not fitted?

Not sure we've heard the end of this one and it's a pity that someone who's got 20 years or so of experience with no other issue, has been done for the sake of 2-3 screws. Something's not quite right with this one - in my opinion.

Obviously, thoughts have to go to the family and other acquaintances for their loss. It's never a good time for them or the family of the gas chappie - I should think he feels dreadful at the moment.
 
Very sad story, it just shows how 1 small mistake or overlooking something in are job can be fatal... this must have been a modern condensing boiler also.

Im not a fan of those fiddily little screws either.
 
i personally do not believe non of it ! I am sorry for the lost of the person but !
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I know what you mean, a brand spanking new boiler in a garage even if it didnt have a flue shouldnt be enough to killl someone. (obviously dont try that at home) but there must be part of that story we're missing
 
Just been reading through reports,non are really that clear,seem to be written by the same person ,just swopped about it different papers and they are more concerned with the fact it being a multi millionaires daughter and not the facts of the case

But there is mention of a cleaner a few days earlier being rushed to hospital while cleaning same bathroom,at the time they did not link it to carbon monoxide issues

Two of the jurors disagreed he was guilty

It says within half an hour,she was over come by carbon monoxide but then says she had complained the house was freezing as the boiler was not working?

I am wondering if there was any other temporary form of heating ?

As said a new worcester ,operating and giving that amount of carbon monoxide seem strange
Ok flue is not attached and boiler drawing back in burnt gases ,so not burning correctly,as well but does not say much for the boiler if still operating ! what kind of flame rectification has it on it if above true,not a very good one it seems

My deepest sympathy to the family and friends

The engineer did have a case to answer

But think we should be looking at boiler manufacturers (in this case worcester) and asking why the boiler is still operational if in the alleged condition because I was under the impression new boilers would not be

imho
 
totally agree puddle as far as i know worcester greenstars have a aps so it should have vitiated and shut down what i would like to know is are they talking about screws in the horizontal section or holding the bend to the boiler
 
I think this could prove an issue worth thinking about , I have installed boilers and not screwed the flues ,Why because there was no screws and loads of them are just push fix anyway
 
most of the baxi ones are push fit and theres no were to put screws in plus if its fitted right and on a jig it carnt move anyway ive done one or to valliants which i dont like which can easly move as the only on a plate an if its a flue from the side (horizontal) it can move by swinging a bit if knocked highly unlikly but can happen i always tape them and screw them just incase, on the solo 2 he you get a bit of tape to put round the flue but on the combis you dont very sad for the family but like everyone is saying i think there a bit more to it than how its be reported
 
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yes I think we are not being given all the facts which is stupid imho anything that could be learned from this death should be shared , So it avoids it ever happening again
 
i think every instance of death by gas appliance should be reported fully in the gas safe magazine all they usually do is use the headlines as a reminder
the evidence is obviously available from hse who would have prosecuted
they say screws were missing but that alone shouldnt allow leakage the flue must have come apart
 
The flue must have come fully apart somehow. A lot of the things in the report dont add up, but I guess we will never know what happened.
 
I agree somethings not right. I usually make a point of running a pencil line around the flue elbow when its pushed fully home , So when I put it on the boiler I know its fully home when the pencil line is flush
 
stevetheplumber said:
i think every instance of death by gas appliance should be reported fully in the gas safe magazine all they usually do is use the headlines as a reminder
the evidence is obviously available from hse who would have prosecuted
they say screws were missing but that alone shouldnt allow leakage the flue must have come apart
Click to expand...

I'm up for this and a bit further. I believe there should be a database, similar to the HSE prosecution database, for every incident. This would allow us to learn from mistakes, regardless of how minute or silly. Of course we can't have all the details before court cases, but there should be no reason why we can't have the details afterwards. Journos have no clue and reading their reports often leaves us with more questions than answers.
 
Where i work we have to fit these screws if missing when carrying out a safety check. I agree with many of the above not enough details and it doesnt add up. Although im sure the installers legal team would have looked into it in finer detail.
 
I was on the CPA1 course the other week and was talking to a guy who worked with/knew the installer at one time, apparently the installer over rid a safety control which I can only guess it was the APS in this case, as well as the flue coming apart somewhere along the line.

Can't vouch for the story 100% but it sort of makes sense in this case :dunce2:.
 
its a 2 wire aps IIRC on some 2 wire set ups it is possible to bridge them and by pass the aps all depends on the pcb configuration
 
There are 2 versions of the SI range. One with APS and one without. It does seem disgraceful that they had the man on manslaughter charge for not installing flue screws. The Worcester vertical flue doesn't have any screws and although I don't install I have come across several that have come apart in the loft.

There are a few safety issues on boilers from new which seem to come up time and time again due to poor manufacturing, gas leaks on burner seals, leaking combustion gaskets etc. If any of these ever killed anyone, I wonder if anyone would go to prison? I doubt it.
 
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