Powerflushing

[petiteanglaise]

Hi

I wondered if someone could help me?



Just over a year ago,I was told by a gasman that my central heating system needed Powerflushing, after I had a pin hole leak in a radiator.

I did get this done in Feb 2011 and had a Magnaclean fitted with another company and I have a certificate and the receipt to prove it was done.

Now I've had another radiator with a pin hole leak, but the first gasman is refusing to replace it, even though I can prove I've had the Powerflush done. They are claiming that the Powerflush was done incorrectly and this is why the radiator has leaked. They are also claiming that the inhibitors added after the Powerflush should have stopped the radiators from corroding completely. I disagree with this, as surely once corrosion has started, it can only be slowed down?

They have also said that the water inside the radiators was orange (it was slightly, as I saw it) and that there was a lot of sludge in the radiators. Again, I saw that there was some. However, they failed to ask me if the central heating had been switched on recently (it has been switched off for 4 weeks). Surely the lack of use would have caused some sludge to be in the system?

Basically, I'm not sure if the first company are trying to pull a fast one or whether the Powerflush hasn't been done correctly. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Many thanks for reading.

 

[Rickster123]

Hi and welcome to the forum

How long did it take to power flush the system? Were the radiators removed and flushed?
Having a power flush doesn't guarantee the radiators. There's no way of knowing how much corrosion has taken place prior to the flush.
in my experience once one radiator has pin holed its time to start replacing them all. And if the radiators are relatively new I.e 10 years or less then they tend not to last as long as the oldies.

 

[AWheating]

what radiator pin holed? the new one fitted by the first gas man?

 

[petiteanglaise]

Hi

Thanks for your replies.

The Powerflush man was there for most of the day 8:30am - 3-4pm. He took each radiator off and flushed it and tapped it with a mallet. The radiators are about 11 years old.

It was a different radiator that pinholed.

I'm just slightly confused as to who I should take the issue up with - the Powerflush company or the gasman?

 

[Rickster123]

Why would it be the gas man? He can't guarantee your entire system after fitting one rad? Did he not offer a price to power flush? And did they use a large machine when power flushing?

 

[AWheating]

when you mean take the issue up with do you mean its there fault?? the original gasman didnt touch the radiator so how is he responsible for it failing??

i supposed you could have a gripe with the powerflush company if they did not make you aware of some facts like..... a powerflush does not solve every problem. A radiator that has corroded for 11 years will still fail quicker than a radiator that has no corrosion powerflush or not.

 

[nysk2008]

to me, if the powerflush guy was there all day and flushed each rad then I would say he has done it correctly. Im assuming he also used a powerflush machine and treated the system with chemicals and neutrislized afterwards rather than just flushing each rad? When ever I powerflush I always make sure the customer is aware that pins holes can form after or during a powerflush and if they do appear it will be an extra. I honestly dont think you can pin the blame on anyone it is just an unfortunate thing that has happened and needs sorting, I sure either firm will recify but I would have thought there will be a cost, maybe a reduced cost if your lucky. Sorry if this post sounds bias towards the plumbers but it sounds like the job has been done but maybe you have not been fully informed regarding the risks.

 

[AWheating]

if you leave a metal bucket out in the rain for years and then brought it inside, gave it a clean and it failed whos fault is it?? the person who cleaned it? or the person who left it in the rain?

 

[petiteanglaise]

Ok - I haven't explained myself properly! I have a Homecare agreement with a large national company. They replaced the 1st radiator and told me to get it Powerflushed (they said it didn't have to be with them, as long as I had proof). I got it done and a MagnaClean fitted with another company.

I have proof of the Powerflush, but the large national company who I have the agreement with (and who I've had it with for 5 years) are now refusing to replace the 2nd radiator, as they've said the Powerflush wasn't done correctly.

I personally believe it was done correctly, as the man was there all day and took off every radiator, as I've mentioned above. He also used a large machine that had to be left outside.

I need to know really whether or not the large national company are trying to pull a fast one, as I haven't used them for the Powerflush.

 

[petiteanglaise]

The system has also been treated with a litre of System Safe, as stated on the Powerflush certificate.

 

[Millsy 82]

What I would do would be to get a local heating engineer to have a look as a second opinion, If you have a homecare plan they are just trying their luck.

 

[nysk2008]

according to powerflush association - run heating system for 30mins to circulate any crud and take a water sample - once analised this will prove if done correctly.

 

[nysk2008]

water sample from heating system, not your tap that is.

 

[AWheating]

do you offten need to vent your radiators by any chance?

 

[Millsy 82]

Also what system is it on Combi, Vented (tanks in loft) or unvented (Not tanks in the loft but still have a cylinder)

 

[jtsplumbing]

What about the inhibitor used ? you say it was put in system 5 years ago ! has this been top'd up since ? inhibitors do-not last for ever and need to be tested on a regular basis.

 

[petiteanglaise]

What about the inhibitor used ? you say it was put in system 5 years ago ! has this been top'd up since ? inhibitors do-not last for ever and need to be tested on a regular basis.

No, I said that I've had the homecare agreement for 5 years. The inhibitor was put in in Feb 2011 (just over a year ago) when I had the Powerflush done.

 

[petiteanglaise]

do you offten need to vent your radiators by any chance?

No - I never touch them.

 

[petiteanglaise]

Also what system is it on Combi, Vented (tanks in loft) or unvented (Not tanks in the loft but still have a cylinder)

It's not a combi. I have a hot water tank on the landing in airing cupboard. The boiler is in the kitchen. Don't think there is anything in the loft, apart from a cold water tank. Is this what you mean? Sorry, not much good, I know!

 

[Millsy 82]

It might just be that it has pulled a little of the muck in from the bottom of the tank when they refilled it. Also if your radiators have started rusting then you will get a slight discolouration over the past year and a bit.

Get back onto the homecare company and tell them that you have had it flushed show them the certificate to say that it has been flushed they have no choice really but to replace the rad. Get them to do a test on the water.

 

[petiteanglaise]

It might just be that it has pulled a little of the muck in from the bottom of the tank when they refilled it. Also if your radiators have started rusting then you will get a slight discolouration over the past year and a bit.

Get back onto the homecare company and tell them that you have had it flushed show them the certificate to say that it has been flushed they have no choice really but to replace the rad. Get them to do a test on the water.

Thank you so much for your advice. I will definitely do that. I thought they were trying it on, but I wanted to be sure first.

 

[FD Powerflow]

Two points, Systemsafe isn't approved by ANY boiler manufacturers, it does carry the minimum Buildcert approval but the fact that no boiler companies recommend the use of it should show you something.

Secondly the engineer probably did do a good job with his powerflush however, the reason you had sludge in the first place is due to a system fault, and it doesn't sound like this was rectified. The reason I know this wasn't rectified isnt just because of the pinholing rads but because your water is orange. Contrary to the engineer's opinion this isn't "a sign of loads of sludge" its actually a sign of active oxidic corrosion, meaning somewhere in your system you are pulling in oxygen, most likely through the F&E tank if its open vent or if its plastic pipe it could be non barrier.

Realistically your probably better off replacing the rad, running some F3 round the system for 3-4 days which will free any sludge up to be attracted to the magnaclean, dump and refill the system twice and add a good inhibitor like F1 or X100. That way when your large company come back to test the water, they will find presence of a good quality inhibitor.

 

[stevetheplumber]

im with fd on this one you have a design fault with your system as orange is basicly rust and to get rust you need oxyegen in the system
id try a local heat eng to look at your system

 

[PowerFlusher2]

Isn't this a prime example over the problem of whether to take out system insurance or not. You say you have had Homecare for 5 years - I assume paying for the privilege - and now you need them to replace a radiator, they refuse, using an excuse which cannot be proven or dis-proven (if there is such a word) where the responsibility lay. A new radiator (depending on size, of course) can be had for well under one hundred pounds and doesn't need huge DIY skills to put it directly in place of the one that is already there. Compare that GBP100.00p with the amount of money you've paid over to Homecare, for absolutely nothing, and you have to ask if it was worth doing? Personally, I self insure my pipes and radiators but have comprehensive cover on the bit that matters, the combi-boiler - much, much cheaper.