prv into condensate pump

[el100268]

I have just had a British Gas inspection on my recently installed viessman condensing combi boiler. (They insisted even though I was cancelling the cover due to the new boilers warranty.) The boiler is in an upstairs airing cupboard in the centre of the house and needed a pump to remove the condensate up into the loft and into the main soil pipe. The prv pipe is also routed into this pump and from there into the soil pipe. It was installed by a recently qualified Corgi fitter who had also had Viessmans in-house training. The BG guy said this is not recommended although it would not affect any future cover should I want to take it out. Is it normal to do this with these type of boilers in this kind of location. It's difficult to see how else the prv outflow could be removed.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

2 words british gas !!!!!!

 

[diamondgas]

Are these pumps equiped to work with the potential discharge a prv can give? Personally I doubt it so would also err on the side of caution and give similar advice as thw BG engineer until further investigation! You got good advice IMHO

 

[el100268]

Does this mean he's taking the P, or is he right?

 

[diamondgas]

Does this mean he's taking the P, or is he right?

welcome to the forum by the way 🙂

To me it sounds like the BG engineer has erred on the side of caution and made you aware of a potential issue! If I saw a prv venting into a condensate pump I'd do the same! I'd then seek further advice regards whether it was okay to do so if it wasn;t at hand!

It doesn't mean it's not allowed, but it is an unusual occurrence for sure!

 

[el100268]

I've heard it's an option if there's no other realistic way to do it. Most of the upstairs of my house is tiled or hardwood floor so it would be a real messy job to lift them. I am in the process of contacting the manufacturer to see what they say. Thanks for your advice.

 

[diamondgas]

Sounded a bit like a politician then!!! lol

Regards was he right? YES ... Unless you know otherwise it is always advisable to cover ones behind!

Truly you'd need to see the manufacturers specifications for the condensate pump as to whether or not it was capable of coping with the potential discharge a prv can give! It would be something new for me to know that a "condensate" pump manufacturer has given the okay for it to be used as a safe reciprocal for prv discharge 🙂 But there you go .. live and learn ....... maybe 🙂

 

[GQuigley67]

i have heard that there is such a pump on the market that takes condensate and PRV

 

[el100268]

Just hope that's the type he's fitted.......

 

[Kev the gas]

"Most of the upstairs of my house is tiled or hardwood floor so it would be a real messy job to lift them".


Even more messier (is that a word?) to replace a ceiling after a condense pump spills its guts because it cant handle the flow rate !

Personally I would not do/ or recommend the above.


Best option is to ask The GSR they will clear it all up !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GQuigley67]

http://www.plumbtraders.co.uk/product/baxi-multifit-external-boiler-discharge-pump/

edited with better link

 

[warrington]

it depends to pump used , check your pump on internet.

Sauermann United Kingdom Ltd |&nbsp Pump PSS

 

[diamondgas]

Baxi Multifit External Boiler Discharge Pump - Plumb Traders

edited with better link

Is that £190 plus VAT? ... £228! I now know they exist but wonder if the op's installer did? And was advised and quoted accordingly 🙂 That's the skeptical side showing through ..:lol:

 

[Kev the gas]

it depends to pump used , check your pump on internet.

Sauermann United Kingdom Ltd |&nbsp Pump PSS

That looks a very clever piece of kit, has anybody fitted one yet ??

 

[twistednuts]

Ive always pondered this ... i know the prv pipework has to fall all the way with mains fed cylinders, but does it have to fall all the way with combis? Is it possible to go up and over?

Regarding the wooden floors coming up, its usually possible to drill from outside and feed a prv supply between the joists, some traps have to come up obviously

 

[Nat]

Ive always pondered this ... i know the prv pipework has to fall all the way with mains fed cylinders, but does it have to fall all the way with combis? Is it possible to go up and over?

Regarding the woode
n floors coming up, its usually possible to drill from outside and feed a prv supply between the joists, some traps have to come up obviously

No prv pipework has to fall all the way to point of discharge. I guess the reasoning is that if you had pipework going upwards water would sit in it when it discharged this could then freeze and you would have no prv. Unlikely I know.

 

[moogwai]

huh.....this is a new one to me...never knew that such a thing existed!!! good for future reference......i really didn't think a normal condensate pump would cope with the flow of water that could fly out of the prv.....good thread this....learnt something today.

 

[diamondgas]

:iagree: it seems like manufacturers are moving with demand and certain installation requirements .. good to know they are available ... I too have learned something new 🙂

Thanks peeps 🙂

 

[GQuigley67]

seems they have a diffuser in it which reduces the pressure of the discharged water going into the pump

 

[AWheating]

i wonder how many people that have fitted one of these pumps have tested it?

 

[moogwai]

Just a thought.....does this mean its ok to discharge a prv pipe into an internal waste when u cant get to an outside wall??? I see a grey area appearing.

Sent from my MB526 using Tapatalk

 

[GasManMike]

I normally cap the existing prv, take 15mm up into the loft off the return and fit a remote prv and terminate through the eaves or gable end. £50 for a condense pump and 2 or 3 lengths of 15mm, damn sight cheaper than that fancy pump.

 

[GQuigley67]

pressure will be less up in the loft than it will be down at the boiler though

 

[mcniven]

pressure will be less up in the loft than it will be down at the boiler though

on a sealed system ??

 

[GQuigley67]

gravity still has its effects sealed system or not, it should be as close the boiler as possible i would imagine

 

[GQuigley67]

even if its not gravity and its just the expansion of water a PRV should be as close to the boiler as possible, as the pressure will be greater at the boiler than it will be couple of meters above in the loft I would imagine

 

[Barry98]

el110268 , there is such a pump i priced one up for a grade listed building not so long back about £300 if i remember right . can you upload photos for us to see ?

 

[GasManMike]

Not sure if about there being a massive difference in pressure on a sealed system, but fitting a remote prv must be ok if manufacturers are producing their own (Baxi)?

 

[GQuigley67]

I'm saying the PRV should be as close to the boiler as possibe

 

[tamz]

I'm saying the PRV should be as close to the boiler as possibe

Not always the case Gerry. Think about a regular boiler on a sealed system. The prv and ev could be fitted 30ft from the boiler. It makes no difference as the pressure rises evenly throughout the system.

The one in the link looks the same as the scum center junk condensate pumps. It even says
"Condensate temperature and acidity 65°C (80°C in short peaks), pH > 2.5"

Maybe in time some manu will have the balls to say their std pump will cope ok without charging a premium price.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting tho.

 

[tamz]

I liked this bit
The pump SI1800 collects condensates and Pressure Release Valve water. A diffuser reduces the pressure of the water discharged in the pump. If a failure occurs, the pump sends a signal to a regulation box; the regulation box closes the solenoid valve and stops cold water entering the boiler.

Why would it need to do that?

Grundfoss condensate pumps have diffusers in and all pumps can be wired to kill the boiler if they fail.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I did hear of a condense pump that could take prv blow off , Think it was made by Willo , worth a phone call to them !