Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws

D

dontknowitall

I have been pondering for a few months now and having just received a trade magazine I've decided the time has come to write to a Member of Parliament. This government said there'd a bonfire of red tape but I've not noticed anything as yet.

As you know, this is a large topic and it's too big for me to tackle alone - hence me asking for contributions.

The object of this thread is to gather information on what we have to be aware of, what we must know, some of the silly rules, registration processes, planning processes (if applicable), building regulations, building inspections, regulatory bodies, etc, etc. I want to highlight the number of pages we have to read and the amount of stuff we have to know. For example the Water Regulations are something like 14 books long and there are 5 OFTEC books, each of about 100 pages. Also, what forms do you have to complete and when?

Initially I thought it a good idea to write down the various Acts of Parliament and Regulations we have to stick to but depending on the comments this might change.

I think that to strengthen my "campaign" I need to try and categorise where possible so oil isn't mixed up with gas, bathrooms and sanitary ware kept separate from heating, electricity kept separate from pipework, renewables kept separate from unvented cylinders and so on. Some Acts and Regulations will cover all areas (e.g. health and safety), but some don't.

I'm also looking for items which are, in our opinions, stupid, contradictory or just plain complicated. Costs of learning would be helpful too (e.g. cost of the one day unvented course, retraining in gas, etc) and how many days training do you have to do to learn or re-learn.

Utlimately, what I'm hoping to achieve is a question something like: "If you want your boiler serviced are you aware as to what the boilerman has to know in order to gain his qualifications and keep them?"

Feel free to say what you want and if I do start composing a letter or report I'll post it here for additions, etc. I probably won't write until nearer Christmas as I want to make the report quite comprehensive and possibly send it to a newspaper as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
To kick things off:

The Office of Fair Trading requires us to give customers a 7 day cancellation period when they spend more than £35 with a trader in their home.
(May 2009)

I spoke to Trading Standards about this and they said it only applies to rogue traders and not to people like me. Not sure how they could tell I wasn’t a rogue trader but when I pointed out that if water’s coming through the floor and my call out is £45 they said I should prepare cards for people to sign saying they want to waive their rights to the 7 day cooling off period.
 
Whilst I respect anyones tenacity at taking on the 'man' and either seeing it through to the end or becoming so frustrated you want to cut your own wrists, if there weren't so many forms and it being against my human rights to see your blood.

To be blunt, having tried in the past with other issues, don't bother mate, unless your doing it to ruin someone elses day.

Which is fun initself, no-one cares just us suckers at the bottom and even as a whole we're powerless.

Back to the miners strike the Met police along with every other force were sent up north to do a bit of peace keeping, then they came back and helped the army with the fire fighters strike, oh then they again helped the army with the ambulance crew.

All the time thinking they were safe then out came the sheehey report and the Police got shafted as well!

Save yourself the ag,

Love

Squirrel X
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Many thanks, SimonG - exactly the type of thing I'm looking for!

I can't be bothered just at the moment but in the bumph I received on the course there's a list of all the G3 regulations and the various Acts of Parliament we need to check out too.


Note to others: I'm not saying we shouldn't need to know our stuff at all!!! I just feel we don't have to learn matters such as the different exceptions in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

I also wonder why we have to learn so much in the regulations when these are sometimes printed or designed differently in the manufacturer's instructions. In cases such as this, I have thought it more sensible for us to be tested on following the manufacturer's instructions properly (where they print the various pipe distances involved anyway.) Assuming the manufacturers have had their product passed and approved then we just have to ensure we stick to the installation diagrams.

Please forgive some of my waffle - writing it for future notes!!
 
I once wrote a 20 page report got to discuss my report with an extremely high staff officer, all of my points were agreed and what happened?

As you lovely northerners would say Nowt......
 
Reading the REAL website last night was the last straw, so I was intending to cover renewables!

Many thanks, Secret Squirrel. A valid point I'd not thought about!! I'll see how my initial enthusiasm goes!
 
Building Regulations 2000
Approved Document G

Main Changes in the 2010 Edition

This Approved Document G (2010) comes into force on 6 April 2010 in support of the Building Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2351) and the Building (Approved Inspectors etc.) Regulations 2000 (SI 2000/2532) as amended, in particular the amendments made by the Building and Approved Inspectors (Amendment) Regulations 2009 (SI 2009/1219), the Building and Approved Inspectors (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2009 (SI 2009/2465) and the Building and Approved Inspectors (Amendment) Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/719). From April 6 2010 all previous editions of Approved Document G will no longer be valid except where it continues to apply in consequence of the transitional provisions in SI 2009/1219 as amended by SI 2009/2465.



I trust you're still with me ...

As it stands, for those who took their Unvented ticket before April 2010, have any of you received notification of an update about these regulations?
 
Nor me, in fact when I sat it I was told it didn't run out. Now I have heard it does as people who have done it since have a renewal date on the Bpec card.
 
I have been pondering for a few months now and having just received a trade magazine I've decided the time has come to write to a Member of Parliament. This government said there'd a bonfire of red tape but I've not noticed anything as yet.
...
OMG what a task!
You have my full support but I think your time might be better spent - doing just about anything else!

or most of you in addition to knowing just about everything to do with gas water buildings. Mot of your are self employed perhaps as ltd companies and are supposed to impliment all the red tape to do with that AND even more if you employ anyone.
 
Thank you Mrs Tara Plumbing - you're quite right - huge task! Exactly the reason I'm tackling it as I reckon there's far too much irrelevant material we are made to learn, as detailed below.

Note to self: Water regulations ... 12 training modules. 382 pages in all.

Example questions:-

Give the date on which the Regulations came into force.
Why do we need to learn this? (1/7/99 in case you'd forgotten)

Name the TWO UK countries that are directly affected by the Water Regulations
Why is this relevant to someone working in England and/or Wales?

State who is responsible for enforcing the new Water Regulations
Water Undertakers - shame the same Water Undertakers avoid a prompt response to their own leaks, some of which take weeks to be sorted.

In addition to the Water Regulations document the [sic] DEFRA have produced an Approved (or guidance) Document. We are obliged by law to comply with the Water regulations. Explain briefly the status of the Approved Document.
Official answer: "The approved document is written to provide practical guidance as to how compliance with the Regulations can be achieved."
What a load of tosh!! (in my not so humble opinion)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oil this time:

Five books (938 pages) on rules and explanations. Each book costs £31.50+VAT (£37.80) and another book of 150 pages costing £25.20+VAT (£30.24). Three types of form to complete, depending on the job £9.95+VAT (£11.94) per form pad.

One week induction course (no earning during this time) £511
One week course, to be repeated every five years £659
Cost of registering to OFTEC (for five years) £598
Compulsory cost of public liability insurance around £300

Cost of analyser £475
Cost of tools around £350

Annual cost of calibration £100 including postage

Total for first year of servicing/installing oil boilers: £3,250
Annual cost around £500 (insurance, calibration, replacing of tools)

Above are for domestic only and not including large boilers nor tanks
More for commercial installations
 
Oil this time:

Five books (938 pages) on rules and explanations. Each book costs £31.50+VAT (£37.80) and another book of 150 pages costing £25.20+VAT (£30.24). Three types of form to complete, depending on the job £9.95+VAT (£11.94) per form pad.

One week induction course (no earning during this time) £511
One week course, to be repeated every five years £659
Cost of registering to OFTEC (for five years) £598
Compulsory cost of public liability insurance around £300

Cost of analyser £475
Cost of tools around £350

Annual cost of calibration £100 including postage

Total for first year of servicing/installing oil boilers: £3,250
Annual cost around £500 (insurance, calibration, replacing of tools)

Above are for domestic only and not including large boilers nor tanks
More for commercial installations

I cheat, get the pads from heating world of spares, have a wet analyser kit, and carry round me little 'oil for idiots' booklet that summarises the 5 books, including tanks.

But I also fork out to oftec for my unvented competent person scheme.

I think a big thing for 'red tape' would be a 'quick' system available to pursue difficult payers. Rather than the long winded and payed back 2p a month pullava.
 

Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk

Similar plumbing topics

We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.