Saniflo advice please

[iain85]

Visited a customer today who has just moved in. In their cellar they have inherited a setup with the washing machine located down there with the waste dealt with via a saniflo (only serving the washing machine).
Now the install looks like a complete bodge with push fit fittings and very little in the way of support. It runs straight up approx 2 metres (internally) in 32mm waste and then approx an additional 15 metres (externally) again in 32mm of horizontal pipe work. It appears to terminate in the ground although I can't be 100% sure as there's a huge bush in the way.
Now those more experienced in these contraptions than I, what are the regs with regards to external pipe work from the saniflo ? As it stands there will always be approx a metres worth of water in the pipe externally that will be stagnant until the next purge of the device. The reason for my visit was because the push fit fitting on the waste kept popping off during the saniflo operating. As it's a new property to my customers they don't have experiance of using it during the winter and surprise surprise it was owned by a builder prior to them purchasing. I suspect it was installed and not actually used but due to the house design relocation of the washing machine would be very difficult.
To make matters worse the property drainage is discharged to a cess pit so I can't tap into the soil stack sadly. So what's my options? At the moment I suspect this pipe discharges into the ground under the patio!

grief....

 

[Centralheatking]

A nightmare - walk away my 1st thought

- 2nd thought stay on at a sensible hourly rate @ £30.00
and get the whole thing sorted CHK

 

[kris]

There shouldnt be stagnant as saniflow can pump vertical first then horizontal but the horizontal should still have a gradient downward so that there any left overs can still drain, but if builder bodged it then your probably right, he probably cut the pipe with his stihl saw hence the pop off ,,,, you can put it into the septic tank if certain measurements are taken , you can install a lint filter on the washing machine water drain line to avoid sending lint into the septic tank and fields or install a graywater filter ahead of your drywell if you are using one to receive washing machine discharge waters. or they can instal a dry well to take it.. spread the use of machine out, and clean the septic tank more often,,

 

[Ermintrude]

Rpm where are you?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Rpm where are you?

Yep - either wait for RPM or PM him.

 

[townfanjon]

Hes out for a beer or two

 

[rpm]

The sani should be either a Vite or a Speed with a washing m/c, the Vite is White and has a 5m lift and the Speed is Grey with a 7m lift both discharge in 32mm solvent weld pipe and the lift is measured from the floor not the top of the pump. Either way the correct installation is the same 1)The vertical should start within 300mm of the discharge elbow. 2) There can be only one vertical in the pipe run so vertical followed by a horizontal and then a 2nd vertical will overwork the pump. 3) The discharge from the highest point to the drains must have a minimum fall of 10mm per metre. Both pumps have a non-return valve in the discharge elbow therefore the vertical will always have water in it but you wont get smells of stagnant water in the celler.

Push-fit pipe is ok if you must on the low pressure inlet side but will seperate on the discharge line from either the weight of water in the pipe or the pressure in the pipe. Others here are better qualified to advise on where the water goes to. Should you find the sani is not working correctly then I would suspect the membrane has shrunk from not being used which is an easy fix, I can repair and post back if interested which is cheaper than an offical sani engineer call out.
Hope that helps.

 

[iain85]

Many thanks, it's a 'vite' model and does have multiple vertical sections (3!) the waste pipe goes vertical just after the pump into a light well and then vertical again then horizontal then vertical again to get the drop. There isn't really another solution without going vertically into the living room with would be horrible visually. What concerns me is the stagnant water that will be exposed to freezing temperatures in the winter. The call out was due to the fitting popping off due to the weight of water as you suggested. It appears to be functioning correctly as a unit as I have ran it temporarily to ground so at least they can use the washing maching.
This job screams 'run away!' But I don't want to leave them hanging as needs sorting one way or another.
Kris, what is a dry well? Thanks for your advice.

 

[rpm]

The last horizontal with a fall will not have any water in it to freeze any other pipe exposed outside you can only lag as best you can and with a pipe run of 3 verticals as described I would expect the pump to fail within 4 years.

Take a look at the Dab nova box when the time comes to replace it, it has a 7.3m lift and whilst the tank is larger it can easily be cleaned by the owner unlike the sani. I would talk to Dab technical who are very helpful and explain the pipe run to them and see what they say about how their pump would behave in situ. If you or anybody reading this wants a nova box I have a NOS one from a cancelled job here in the workshop at half price of the new one plus p+p.

 

[kris]

Many thanks, it's a 'vite' model and does have multiple vertical sections (3!) the waste pipe goes vertical just after the pump into a light well and then vertical again then horizontal then vertical again to get the drop. There isn't really another solution without going vertically into the living room with would be horrible visually. What concerns me is the stagnant water that will be exposed to freezing temperatures in the winter. The call out was due to the fitting popping off due to the weight of water as you suggested. It appears to be functioning correctly as a unit as I have ran it temporarily to ground so at least they can use the washing maching.
This job screams 'run away!' But I don't want to leave them hanging as needs sorting one way or another.
Kris, what is a dry well? Thanks for your advice.

Hi ian a drywell works as a soakaway. Picture a waterwell but dry. Its basically a cesspit without a lid. Its an open pit with outlets so as it fills the water disapates through the outlets . The downside of a drywell with washing machine it can kill the surrounding grass and plantlife But the washing machine waste can go into the septic if the appropriate filters and certain things are took into consideration. If filters werent inplace then it cocks up the bacteria in the septic but if lint filters are put inplace then it reduces the chances of the bacteria dying.

 

[iain85]

So am I right in saying this dry well is open to atmosphere? Or can it be turfed over? I assume it's filled with pea shingle as per a soak away ? Sounds like a good solution. Many thanks

 

[rpm]

Just to add, in a situation like this with the pump being in the basement I would advise fitting the high water level alarm so if / when the pump does fail the customer will get some warning.

 

[kris]

Rpm your the man for sani , ian says there are 3 vertical sections on the pipework in question am i right in thinking there should only be 1 vertical section , the first section , surely 3 vertical sections will put great pressure on the machine or am i speaking nonsense, ive fitted loads of sanis but theyve all been 22mm outlet, ive never done a 32mm

 

[kris]

So am I right in saying this dry well is open to atmosphere? Or can it be turfed over? I assume it's filled with pea shingle as per a soak away ? Sounds like a good solution. Many thanks

The only thing i think drywells are more for heavy rain etc rather than just a wm, prob find an easier solution , i suppose you can have it pumped into a tank then the waste tank can be emptied by specialised companies, but all this can be extra costs, id say the best one would be look into the filters for the septic, or contact the company that empties the septic in question,

 

[rpm]

Kris you are right, only one vertical allowed to start within 300mm of the pump but most guys allow a little more if done that way then vertical up to the highest point then the 1:100 fall to the drain so you are creating a "Water slide" otherwise you are overworking the pump/motor so reducing the life span. This generally applies to all these types of pumps / macerators sold in the uk. Some models are 32mm discharge only and some can be either 22 or 32mm, where given the choice I advise the vertical in 22mm then the horizontal in 32mm, no sharp 90 elbows use 2x 45`s.
Thanks for the nice words but there are others on the forum who know their stuff re small bore pumps, Chris Watson, Mike Jackson & Muncher (if he is still around) are a few. (apology to the forgotten ones).