SmarTap installation help

[dimuc]

I have a plumber who is refurbishing my bathroom, he has installed a SmarTap shower that I purchased however the shower is not operating as expected as when the shower is turned on using a 2 dial controller (1.water temp and 2. redirect to showerhead or shower hose) the water comes out of the shower head and hose for a couple of seconds and then stops.

Firstly Iam no plumbing expert (far from it) but I can see the pipe layout in the loft. The hot and cold water feed has T junctions whereby it splits off to the shower unit (inc 90 degree bends) for hot and cold inlets and then continues to a shower pump used for the bath. See attached images of pipe layout, smartap shower details SmarTap - A New Shower Experience - https://smartap-tech.com/

Iam wondering if this setup is causing the shower not to work, I would appreciate any thought from qualified plumbers to help resolve this issue.

Thanks in advance

 

[ShaunCorbs]

what system do you have as the shower is only fit for a high pressure system eg mains pressure if you have a tank it wont work direct

 

[dimuc]

what system do you have as the shower is only fit for a high pressure system eg mains pressure if you have a tank it wont work direct

I have a gravity system, would I be able to use a shower pump?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

there's your problem

states in the instructions

" The recommended minimum pressure required for optimal operation of SmarTap system is 1 bar of dynamic pressure. At less than 1 bar, the flow rate will be low. "

so bad plumber for not bringing it to your attention

yes you can fit a pump BUT i wouldnt have the bath teeing off the same feed as the shower they both want independent runs / feeds 22mm to each

how big is your cold tank in the loft? and whats the height difference eg distance in height from your existing blue pump to the bottom of the big tank ?

 

[dimuc]

there's your problem

states in the instructions

" The recommended minimum pressure required for optimal operation of SmarTap system is 1 bar of dynamic pressure. At less than 1 bar, the flow rate will be low. "

so bad plumber for not bringing it to your attention

yes you can fit a pump BUT i wouldnt have the bath teeing off the same feed as the shower they both want independent runs / feeds 22mm to each

how big is your cold tank in the loft? and whats the height difference eg distance in height from your existing blue pump to the bottom of the big tank ?

I thought the water pressure might be the issue, i dont really need a pump to fill the bath so I will ask him to reconfigure the pipework and connect the pump to the shower instead. I have a small cold tank in the loft and a big tank in the cellar approx 5.5 - 6m to the blue pump. I dont fancy changing the pipe diameters as its all tiled in now! What issues would the bath and shower feed cause if teed together?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

is the cellar tank feeding / supplying the blue pump ?

 

[dimuc]

is the cellar tank feeding / supplying the blue pump ?

I cant be certain but if the tank in the cellar is used for hot water then yes.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

your looking for something like this

 

[dimuc]

your looking for something like this

your looking for something like this

i have a smaller version of this is the loft and a vertical cylinder tank in the cellar.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

would say it needs upgrading then

you need a min of 50 gallons stored for a pump (around 230l)

also are your bath taps suitable for low pressure as if you remove the pump they also might not work

 

[dimuc]

would say it needs upgrading then

you need a min of 50 gallons stored for a pump (around 230l)

also are your bath taps suitable for low pressure as if you remove the pump they also might not work

I had the water pressure checked after adding the pump and its showing just over 2 bar. Issue is still the same
😕

 

[Ric2013]

Realistically, if the issue is the cistern is running dry, or water level is falling to a level that allows air to be sucked in, this might be something you could see by simply looking at the cistern when the pump is in use.

Shaun is spot on about 50 gallons being the minimum recommended for pumps but, if the OP only takes short showers, a smaller cistern may prove sufficient for the use incurred. I would agree his advice is good, but will not (alone) cure the problem.

 

[dimuc]

I should also add i have a second bathroom with a shower and that works fine with the current setup.

 

[dimuc]

So shower has started to work! however...

I have a gravity fed system and therefore using a water pump to increase the pressure to 2.2bar. The issue is when running hot water after a min or so the water stops and can hear the water pump stopping and starting. When just running the cold water only everything seems ok.

Thought it was a supply issue but there are no water supply issues when running the existing shower, the smartap is using the same (main) hot and cold feeds.

Granted by using a pump the water flow is increased. I have run existing shower and hot is ok as I can run it for 20 mins with no issues. I have also run both at the same time and the Smartap hot water 'dies' and the existing shower and hot water continues to run okay 🤔😕

 

[Andy Marden]

So shower has started to work! however...

I have a gravity fed system and therefore using a water pump to increase the pressure to 2.2bar. The issue is when running hot water after a min or so the water stops and can hear the water pump stopping and starting. When just running the cold water only everything seems ok.

Thought it was a supply issue but there are no water supply issues when running the existing shower, the smartap is using the same (main) hot and cold feeds.

Granted by using a pump the water flow is increased. I have run existing shower and hot is ok as I can run it for 20 mins with no issues. I have also run both at the same time and the Smartap hot water 'dies' and the existing shower and hot water continues to run okay 🤔😕

I have just installed a a SmarTap system and I have similar problems.

A showerpump runs to the batch and the shower in a T. That's fine because we don't need both used at the same time. Bath works fine but when the shower is switched on, there are a few whirrs from the controller unit and then nothing. However, if I start filling the bath, switch the shower on and then switch off the batch, it works fine.

A plumber reckons it is because SmarTap is sensing the low inlet pressure (because the pump is off - duh!) and then switching off - not even allowing some water to run through to allow the pump to work.

So it is either:

• a fault
• a setting somewhere that can be changed to wait longer for the pressure to rise
• unbelievably crap design (so much for the Smart bit if that is the case)

Does anyone know where we can get support for SmarTap now they seem to have been acquired by Masco and they seem to not exist any more?

 

[Chester]

are both hot and cold being pumped?

after reading the MI's

check hot and cold aren't mixed up
post a picture of your pump thats feeding the water supplies to the unit so we can see what's going on there, I reckon its to do with that.

 

[Ben-gee]

It’s probably because the shower head is higher than the bath bath taps, so you don’t get enough flow to kick the pump into starting.
Solution is to replace pump with a negative head pump, Stuart Turner monsoon universal would be my choice.

 

[Andy Marden]

I have just installed a a SmarTap system and I have similar problems.

A showerpump runs to the batch and the shower in a T. That's fine because we don't need both used at the same time. Bath works fine but when the shower is switched on, there are a few whirrs from the controller unit and then nothing. However, if I start filling the bath, switch the shower on and then switch off the batch, it works fine.

A plumber reckons it is because SmarTap is sensing the low inlet pressure (because the pump is off - duh!) and then switching off - not even allowing some water to run through to allow the pump to work.

So it is either:

• a fault
• a setting somewhere that can be changed to wait longer for the pressure to rise
• unbelievably crap design (so much for the Smart bit if that is the case)

Does anyone know where we can get support for SmarTap now they seem to have been acquired by Masco and they seem to not exist any more?

OK - I think I understand the problem. now:

My shower pump is a positive head one. Normally this is fine with taps and showers but it relies on gravity to be flowing data through the pump. When you open a tap, the gravity flow starts moving the water and then the movement of the water triggers the pump to start and increase the pressure.

My SmarTap controller has been placed in the loft, at the same level as the cold water feed tank. This means that the input vales to the controller has little pressure when you swithc it on so it does not work.

The solution is to do one of two things:

1. Move the controller so that it is lower - then the gravity pressure at start will be present and the controller will activate., switching the pump one.
2. Replace the positive head shower p[ump with a negative head (or universal) one - this maintains the pressure in the pipes up to the closed taps or the smarTap controller, rather than rely on gravity.

I have chosen 2 since:

• moving the controller would be a lot of plumber work that will cost
• I can fit the new pump myself
• I want to increase the pressure anyway (my old pump is 2 bar, but the new one is a Salamander Eve which is Universal and can be set to 1.5, 2 or 3 bar
• the hidden depths of the SmarTap small print recommends a negative head pump anyway

The pump has arrived and just have to fit it. I'll confirm back if it works.

 

[Andy Marden]

OK - I think I understand the problem. now:

My shower pump is a positive head one. Normally this is fine with taps and showers but it relies on gravity to be flowing data through the pump. When you open a tap, the gravity flow starts moving the water and then the movement of the water triggers the pump to start and increase the pressure.

My SmarTap controller has been placed in the loft, at the same level as the cold water feed tank. This means that the input vales to the controller has little pressure when you swithc it on so it does not work.

The solution is to do one of two things:

1. Move the controller so that it is lower - then the gravity pressure at start will be present and the controller will activate., switching the pump one.
2. Replace the positive head shower p[ump with a negative head (or universal) one - this maintains the pressure in the pipes up to the closed taps or the smarTap controller, rather than rely on gravity.

I have chosen 2 since:

• moving the controller would be a lot of plumber work that will cost
• I can fit the new pump myself
• I want to increase the pressure anyway (my old pump is 2 bar, but the new one is a Salamander Eve which is Universal and can be set to 1.5, 2 or 3 bar
• the hidden depths of the SmarTap small print recommends a negative head pump anyway

The pump has arrived and just have to fit it. I'll confirm back if it works.

Just installed a universal pump (negative head) and it all works fine.

 

[TonyF1]

SmarTap has an App for Apple and Android that displays the water pressure for hot and cold feed. I’d have a look at that to check the pressure before moving the plumbing about.

 

[Danjab]

Just installed a universal pump (negative head) and it all works fine.

Glad you got it working, I have a similar issue, however with a high pressure system off a combi boiler, the app reads 2.2 bar however the water often slows to a dribble.

I'm considering fitting a high pressure hot water tank and pump, it would be good to know if this has a chance of working though as it'll probably cost a lot.

Any thoughts?