Swapping electric shower for same kilowatt electric shower

[Mgrant]

Hi, do you need to be part P to swap an electric shower for a same kilowatt electric shower?

 

[townfanjon]

I am not part p mate , I swapped one this afternoon lol

 

[Mgrant]

Same kilowatt? Did you just check the fuse board had the right amp breaker?

 

[townfanjon]

Same kilowatt, wasn't on an rcd . Told customer and he shrugged his shoulders. I have two pals who are sparks if they would have gone down they would have wanted to rewire his house, and I am not joking.

 

[lame plumber]

if the elctrics are not to standard, I price in my sparky to bring it up to regs as well as replacing the shower, otherwise I walk away. If its all good in goes a replacement.

 

[Best]

Same kilowatt, wasn't on an rcd . Told customer and he shrugged his shoulders. I have two pals who are sparks if they would have gone down they would have wanted to rewire his house, and I am not joking.

It must have an RCD. I wouldn't change a shower without an RCD. I would fit it without turning electrics on & give the customer it in writing that they need a spark to do the electrics.
MIs always state it must have the RCD. To hell with the customer wanting their job done.

 

[Mgrant]

Same kilowatt, wasn't on an rcd . Told customer and he shrugged his shoulders. I have two pals who are sparks if they would have gone down they would have wanted to rewire his house, and I am not joking.

Did it not have a modern consumer unit then?

 

[Mgrant]

So the idea of getting a sparky in every time you swap a shower for another the same kilowatt rating is abit over the top?

 

[Best]

A separate RCD fitted covering the shower, or the rest of the house plus the shower, will do fine & meet regs.
I got an electrician into two 1980s apartments that both had old electric showers that needed replaced. Neither had RCDs fitted & the spark decided to fit separate RCDs to cover the entire apartments so that everything was safer.

 

[Bolty123]

As long as it has the same rating and already rcd protected then yes just swap it. I don't even think you have to upgrade to an rcd by the electrical regs as it's just maintenance work. But all mi will say must have an rcd.

 

[Mgrant]

Thanks are non-rcd protected showers usually found on houses with old style fuse boards?

 

[townfanjon]

Yes James , current regs have everything in the house on a consumer unit with an rcd, a few years back just mainly the sockets.
Old fuse boxes won't have them but you find some where the rcd is remote from the fusebox and is just covering the shower.

 

[Best]

As long as it has the same rating and already rcd protected then yes just swap it. I don't even think you have to upgrade to an rcd by the electrical regs as it's just maintenance work. But all mi will say must have an rcd.

New shower - new regs, I would think, so RCD would be a must.
Also, although I know what you mean about straight swap if same output, but let's say in a worse senario a plumber or someone with little electric knowledge swaps to an identical kW shower, but actually the previous installer put in a cable that was always too small for the kW or length of run?
It is then all on the head of the final man in.

 

[Bolty123]

Yes usually they will not be rcd protected but just because it looks quite new it may not have the shower on an rcd. Maybe when it's not obvious still get a sparks in.

 

[Mgrant]

Thanks for all the input. Were would an rcd be if its remote from the consumer unit?

 

[Best]

I agree. If any doubt push the electrics over to a spark. Even though they are dirty lazy gits that leave all their rubbish lying. :smile:
We all tend to tell people not to touch any plumbing that is too complicated or may cause danger, so same applies where some of us are not experienced or qualified enough in electrics.

 

[Best]

Thanks for all the input. Were would an rcd be if its remote from the consumer unit?

A remotely fitted RCD can be anywhere between after the electric meter and the consumer unit. It's just the same as your plug in circuit breakers - just at source, if possible.
Some houses have the meter totally seperate to the consumer unit - perhaps the meter in an external built in wall cabinet, for example. Or just beside the consumer unit.
The separate RCD needs in its own particular surface box which can be bought as an extra.
Remember that there are now quite commonly split consumer units which contain 2 RCDs which means you only get one lot of circuits going off in a cut out.

 

[Bolty123]

Thing with it not being notifiable anyone can do it. Know what you mean though, in practice you should really be a bit clued up on electrics as the wrong size cable could have been fitted originally and could be getting very warm

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/15/part-p-notifications-build-cont.cfm?type=pdf

 

[Best]

Thing with it not being notifiable anyone can do it. Know what you mean though, in practice you should really be a bit clued up on electrics as the wrong size cable could have been fitted originally and could be getting very warm

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/15/part-p-notifications-build-cont.cfm?type=pdf

Crazy really. Funny bit is it states that if the new shower KW is higher then the cable needs checked to see if it is okay. Therefore if the cable is deemed to be okay & doesn't need the cable replaced, then not notifiable.
My point is - Who is capable of checking the cable for maximum rating allowing for its size and length?

 

[Bolty123]

It is a bit daft I think the moral of the story is part p is a bit of a joke.

 

[Mgrant]

It turns out the shower is 30 years old, an the house has a fuse board with just one fuse. If any thing trips it would effect the whole house. Guessing an rcd is a must. Not sure how one could be added though.

 

[drip-dry]

Can not see the point about the new shower being the same out put as the old so maybe ok to just swop over..you do not know if it was installed correctly anyway,just because it has been working 30 years..part p reg or not..if you are working in someones property,you should at least have a basic knowledge of what you are doing and you should not be putting customers at risk while to do so...you have proven by the posts you are not confident as regards the shower update,so I would say step aside and let someone do the the job that can do it correctly
A big part of our job is to know our limitations,pass on work we can not do and thus cover your bum.......

 

[Mgrant]

Can not see the point about the new shower being the same out put as the old so maybe ok to just swop over..you do not know if it was installed correctly anyway,just because it has been working 30 years..part p reg or not..if you are working in someones property,you should at least have a basic knowledge of what you are doing and you should not be putting customers at risk while to do so...you have proven by the posts you are not confident as regards the shower update,so I would say step aside and let someone do the the job that can do it correctly
A big part of our job is to know our limitations,pass on work we can not do and thus cover your bum.......

Thanks, I have swapped showers before have been quite modern ones, with rcd protection. This is the first time I've gone to one like this.

 

[philipb]

Hi Guys,
Be very carefull doing electrical work if you are not qualified.
I am a Part p spark and quite often get asked by plumbers to connect showers
and even central heating pumps.You may think why bother,is only a quick job
it wont matter,and most of the time its fine.
But if you fit a electric shower and there is an electrical fire,you are in big trouble.