Unbelievable gas leak

[goz666]

I fit a new boiler a while ago at a property including new upgrade to 22mm gas pipe. Got a call on Thursday saying they could smell gas, went straight there and did a let by and TT. No drop whatsoever, did the TT twice because I have a trainee with me and he had no drop,customer was watching all the time and I explained the test and what we were looking for.

Just had a call again this morning saying she's had National Grid out and they've changed the anaconda because the engineer said it was pinholed, probably caused by me soldering near the meter and also its probably been leaking since the boiler was fitted !!!!

I'm puzzled, she's only just started smelling gas and the boiler has been in at least 10 weeks. The new upgrade was right back to the meter including new Union so the meter was removed back to the ECV while hot work was ongoing and two days after I did a tightness test the Grid engineer says he found a leak ?? Pretty much pi55ed me right off !!!

 

[Rickster123]

If you got flux on the anaconda it will eat through it in no time at all. If they're not chasing you for a claim I'd just put it down to experience and move on.

 

[kris]

It is strange that you had no drop in all your tests , do u use digital or water u gauge ? Not that it makes much difference just curious , could it have been leaking intermittently ? Is the meter inside the property as they managed to smell it ???

 

[Atouchofgas]

If you got flux on the anaconda it will eat through it in no time at all. If they're not chasing you for a claim I'd just put it down to experience and move on.

It does eat through quickly, had one that took 48hrs

 

[Neil K]

If you got flux on the anaconda it will eat through it in no time at all. If they're not chasing you for a claim I'd just put it down to experience and move on.

APP is 100% right. Do you use everflux? I actually think there was a technical bulletin out about this not so long ago

 

[goz666]

I use a water gauge, and the meter is in the vestibule of the house. She noticed the smell a few days ago, hence I went round to check.

I only use Laco or Powerflow flux, and the only way flux could've got on the anaconda was directly off my hands as we removed the meter and anaconda whilst soldering. Maybe that's what caused it but I still don't understand no drop on my gauge two days ago and she could smell gas but we couldn't. Anyway we live and learn, I only posted because I remember reading a post a while ago from someone saying they were being disciplined at work for leaving a leak on a gas fitting

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I use a water gauge, and the meter is in the vestibule of the house. She noticed the smell a few days ago, hence I went round to check.

I only use Laco or Powerflow flux, and the only way flux could've got on the anaconda was directly off my hands as we removed the meter and anaconda whilst soldering. Maybe that's what caused it but I still don't understand no drop on my gauge two days ago and she could smell gas but we couldn't. Anyway we live and learn, I only posted because I remember reading a post a while ago from someone saying they were being disciplined at work for leaving a leak on a gas fitting

new meter? as it might have a one way valve

 

[Atouchofgas]

Doesn't a proper tightness test involve spraying the anaconda? So I presume that it wasn't leaking when you did yours?

 

[Leo21]

The reason you didn't find the leak is because the governer must have locked out. You obviously did your tt right, so faulty governer/regulator.

 

[goz666]

Doesn't a proper tightness test involve spraying the anaconda? So I presume that it wasn't leaking when you did yours?

I did spray, LDF all over the meter including both unions, the anaconda and sprayed right back to the ECV as I've had the ECV leak in the past !! No signs of leaks anywhere when I did it !!

 

[Leo21]

Doesn't a proper tightness test involve spraying the anaconda? So I presume that it wasn't leaking when you did yours?

How are you going to do that with a bottle and brush? That's what the gas supplier uses.

 

[Neil K]

It's one to be aware off. Flux rots the anaconda

 

[GrahamM]

Doesn't a proper tightness test involve spraying the anaconda? So I presume that it wasn't leaking when you did yours?

Just curious. Where does it state this?
I don't LDF the anaconda itself unless I suspect a leak after tightness test.

 

[Scott_D]

What pressure do you TT at?
Does your FGA do a tightness test and printout?

 

[goz666]

What pressure do you TT at?
Does your FGA do a tightness test and printout?

Tested at 21mb and I have the Kane 455 it does TT and print but i always use a water gauge. Cant be bothered using the FGA on a TT.

 

[Scott_D]

The printout give a little proof that there was no leak at the time if testing.
It's a pain but priceless in this type of situation.

Maybe the anaconda was only leaking at a slightly higher pressure (25mb)

 

[Neil K]

Water gauge is your only man. Ive had the electronic ones giving me wrong readings before. Water gauge is what all the national grid blokes use now for the same reason.

 

[Leo21]

The printout give a little proof that there was no leak at the time if testing.
It's a pain but priceless in this type of situation.

Maybe the anaconda was only leaking at a slightly higher pressure (25mb)

My word that time of test was is good enough. Let someone try and prove any different.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Thats the magic words 'prove it'

 

[stevetheplumber]

test should be no higher than 20mb i thought?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Changed it couple year ago i thought 20/21 mbar maybe wrong

 

[kris]

test should be no higher than 20mb i thought?

I've always been 10 let by then 20 tightness, but IGE/UP1B does state to not exceed 21 so 20-21mbar

 

[hammers4spanner]

Let by 7-10

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Let by 7-10

Yep they changed that recently, God knows why!

 

[goz666]

ACS done again last November and as stated, let by 7-10 and TT 21mb no change in timing.

 

[newcastle phill]

7-10, 20-21

 

[Leo21]

What's that in inches?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What's that in inches?

237 - 338 to 677 - 711 if my math is right

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

7-10, 20-21

yep,spot on

 

[Ermintrude]

Is this new or Old Testament

 

[Pssst]

This is a fairly common occurrence. Any deposits of powerflux or similar o an anaconda has the potential to nibble through within as little as a few weeks.

As stated, when TT be careful to avoid regulator lock up.

I will sometimes do a let by test, then slowly raise to an intermediate level,,say 15 mb and closely observe then raise to final test pressure of 20mb avoiding lockup.

Even so ,it is entirely possible to have a pin holed flex due to flux that will hold a correctly applied TT and will only leak intermittently.

Remember the flux is semi solid and can easily plug a pinhole and then if ambient conditions change (eg warm weather) ,the flux blob softens and it blips some gas out again.


Even squiriting with LDF needs care as it can sometimes wash away/soften flux blobs thus revealing a leak but it can also seal up the leak !

 

[REDSAW]

so you tell your customer; national grids equiptment has failed luv, their the ones responsible for it. 🙂

 

[Pssst]

True ,,it all creates valuable work and generates income..keep blobbing lads .

Only slightly relevant but nothing downstream of the ECV belongs to Grid or the transporter. If anything downstream of the ECV eg meter/reg is duff then transporter/grid may replace/rectify as long as there is a contract in place. This is then internally billed to the equipment owner kerching $$ keep blobbing..

 

[armourer]

You All seem to be forgetting the Anaconda is at 75mb (medium pressure) as its before the regulator.
Also the meter govenor is always in lock out if no appliances are in use.

Thats the reason you LDF the anaconda its the higher pressure.

 

[GrahamM]

You All seem to be forgetting the Anaconda is at 75mb (medium pressure) as its before the regulator.
Also the meter govenor is always in lock out if no appliances are in use.

Thats the reason you LDF the anaconda its the higher pressure.

Not during a proper tightness test it's not. As long as regulator is functioning correctly.
This is why tightness test is 20-21mb. Regulator should not lock up until 3-5mb above WP.
This then tests everything downstream of ECV. So there no requirement to LDF anaconda unless you have a drop and are tracing a leak.

 

[Captain.rick]

I only recently did my acs and they say i should ldf anaconda and if it lets by i could crack the nut and ldf inside!

I said why would i do that its not my responsability and they said well you dont have to but you could if you wanted to. I think thats wrong so inwont touch it anyway!

Ldf the anaconda was advised as a must

Maybe as it reached standing pressure it was enough to cause the leak?

 

[REDSAW]

you made it then? lol

I only recently did my acs and they say i if it lets by i could crack the nut and ldf inside!

think you would find thats a 'you could crack the nut and ldf inside, but the transporter wont like you doing so as it belongs to them' thsats because you cant do anything lawfully to it.

 

[Captain.rick]

Yep, pretty bloody pointless mentioning it to people in the class!
I wonder how many have actually tried it anyway

 

[GrahamM]

I only recently did my acs and they say i should ldf anaconda and if it lets by i could crack the nut and ldf inside!

I said why would i do that its not my responsability and they said well you dont have to but you could if you wanted to. I think thats wrong so inwont touch it anyway!

Ldf the anaconda was advised as a must

Maybe as it reached standing pressure it was enough to cause the leak?

Advised!
Comes down to personal preference I think.
Wasn't a requirement to do it on my ACS 5 years ago and I never have unless I have a drop and suspect Anaconda is compromised.
Also resat my ACS 3 weeks ago now and had question asked by my assessor.... after a successful tightness test carried out to standards are you required to LDF the Anaconda?
My answer was NO as tightness test was sound! Correct!

 

[noggin78]

I was always taught three sprays. One on the Ecv Union, one where the anaconda meets the regulator and one on the test nipple.

 

[The Goose]

You say they changed the anaconda but did they also change the governor? I am thinking that is more likely to have been the problem.

I have noticed they often have the anaconda sealed and attatched to the governor ready to be fitted and tend to just change both.
Its just I have come across the governors leaking and causing similar symptoms ie only leaking when they regulate the pressure so this does not show up in the tt.

There was a make of governor that was more prone to doing this and I think it was donkin or something similar.
As a result I pay a bit more attention to them! A bit of ldf round the bleed hole in the top might give you an idea if there is a problem. If you have it dismantled for any reason I seem to recall that they rattle if you shake them (if they are faulty).

 

[stevetheplumber]

taking the annaconda of and spraying inside is to check for let by on the valve

 

[Pssst]

Common pressure tiers are

0-75mb low pressure
75mb-2 Bar Medium pressure
2-7 bar intermediate pressure
above 7 bar..high pressure

You will rarely see anything like 75mb on a domestic service unless it is med pressure and it incorporates a single or two stage med to low pressure regulator,

Common standing pressures on low pressure services would be anything from around 24mb to 35mb but typically around 26mb.

 

[smitty1892]

B6 reg in Northern Ireland is let by ecv 16 mbar , 10 mbar let by reg and 19 mbar tt . There's so much back pressure which can hide a leak on gauge