15 or 22mm Gas Pipe

[Kewat66]

Hi All,
Just trying to get some clarification on the 15 or 22mm gas connection. I have a colleague who insists on getting all his installs changed to 22mm. I have also had confirmation from clients that BG insist on this as well but I was working under the rule of pipe run with bends and other gas appliances at max being under 1mb drop from meter to boiler?
Most boilers appear to have 22mm connections but I am fitting a Glowworm flexicom this week that has 15mm gas connection, so do you always follow manufacturers instructions but hat applies when not mentioned in the MIs?
Thanks
Kewat66

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

what kw is the boiler and how far is it from meter? dont renew unless its needed

 

[lame plumber]

dont you size your pipework iaw run lengths, kw on runs etc?

 

[jase158]

they will become stuck one day when they have to replace a pipe to 28mm. you wont as it will already be 28mm!! which one do you prefer? customer pays or you pay?

 

[Kewat66]

Gasmanxxxr1 & lameplumber, that's what I have been working to. Doing the calculations and if it passes just changing the first meter to 22mm so it is the same as the gas connection.
i also where possible check the old boiler to meter with my gauge as it stands to see what reading I get.
kewat66

 

[lame plumber]

Gasmanxxxr1 & lameplumber, that's what I have been working to. Doing the calculations and if it passes just changing the first meter to 22mm so it is the same as the gas connection.
i also where possible check the old boiler to meter with my gauge as it stands to see what reading I get.
kewat66

ticketi poo then, out of interest why did you raise this question, have you been reading mfis that state all runs to be in 22mm?

 

[Ermintrude]

One nob I used to work with thought it would be alright as mfr says boiler will work as low as 14mbar! WHY the hell do they publish pap like that? Meter to boiler max 1Mb and that's it.

 

[lame plumber]

One nob I used to work with thought it would be alright as mfr says boiler will work as low as 14mbar! WHY the hell do they publish pap like that? Meter to boiler max 1Mb and that's it.

As the manufacturers actually write the rules for gas safe to follow

 

[Linkyplumb]

First thing I do when weighing up for a new boiler is to test the drop between meter and boiler. Obviously if boiler is dead then you cant do that.Shows the customer you know what you are doing, and also puts you onto firm territory... If its more than 1mb drop, then it needs upgrading, end of story

 

[dancinplumba]

One nob I used to work with thought it would be alright as mfr says boiler will work as low as 14mbar! WHY the hell do they publish pap like that? Meter to boiler max 1Mb and that's it.

Which mfr ? Worcestershyte by any chance ?

 

[Kewat66]

Lameplumber,
yes this week i have had 3 quote installs following on from BG where they have stated all pipe work must be upgraded but in 2 of the quotes i worked out the runs were fine and within the correct tolerance. When i checked with a gas friend he backed them up, always changed to 22mm and insisted i was wrong! Just wanted clarification as this area seems a bit grey with MIs etc. If the MIs insist follow them if not you the pipe run calculation.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Lameplumber,
yes this week i have had 3 quote installs following on from BG where they have stated all pipe work must be upgraded but in 2 of the quotes i worked out the runs were fine and within the correct tolerance. When i checked with a gas friend he backed them up, always changed to 22mm and insisted i was wrong! Just wanted clarification as this area seems a bit grey with MIs etc. If the MIs insist follow them if not you the pipe run calculation.

BG saleman have been told to always sell a gas pipe upgrade, that way if it needs doing then its already in the quote, if the engineer doesnt need it then he can refund it and look like a hero in front of the customer

BG saleman dont have a clue, probably selling windows last week

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

they will become stuck one day when they have to replace a pipe to 28mm. you wont as it will already be 28mm!! which one do you prefer? customer pays or you pay?

who becomes stuck?

If i think the pipe run is border line i would include an upgrade in my quote and then just take it off if not needed

 

[stevetheplumber]

any combi unless its sitting on top of the meter is going to need 22
reason manaufacturers give advice on how low a boiler will function is to overcome low pressure areas theres an area near me where your luckyn bto get 18mb at the meter when you get transco out the just say its a known problem and provided youve got the pipe size right to get 1mb drop max and its above the limit that the manufacturer gives then you can leave it running

 

[Ermintrude]

Which mfr ? Worcestershyte by any chance ?

Was on the bakki duotec 2 GA

 

[AWheating]

i worked on a HA job where they decided to fit isars because they had a 15mm connection and would work on 14mb inlet pressure. I refused to connect them up on the existing carcus and told the clerk he was an idiot and did not understand the regs and pipework sizing. As you can imagine i was removed from the job because i knew what i was doing and could not convince them that the size of the gas connection on the boiler has no real relevance to the actual gas supply needed.

 

[Richie_77]

Dont WB let you have a 2.5mb drop between meter and boiler?

 

[smtplumbing]

At the end of the day I upgrade all my boiler installs no problems. I learned the hard way one time so lesson learned

 

[Heating-eng]

Lameplumber,
yes this week i have had 3 quote installs following on from BG where they have stated all pipe work must be upgraded but in 2 of the quotes i worked out the runs were fine and within the correct tolerance. When i checked with a gas friend he backed them up, always changed to 22mm and insisted i was wrong! Just wanted clarification as this area seems a bit grey with MIs etc. If the MIs insist follow them if not you the pipe run calculation.

read instructions for boiler ,most WB boilers need 22 mm min

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Dont WB let you have a 2.5mb drop between meter and boiler?

No, 1mb between meter and boiler, 1.5 mb between boiler and test nipple

 

[Heating-eng]

No, 1mb between meter and boiler, 1.5 mb between boiler and test nipple

All pipework for gas needs this, most boilers need at least 22mm even some of the heat only boilers need 22mm

 

[Reg Man]

Consultancy I got called in for on block of 50 flats. All design pipe sizing on original drawing was very border line. All pipe runs were long from communal meter room to each flat, run in track pipe buried in the carpeted corridor floors. Installer had decided to save money on materials by dropping down one size, bearing in mind 75metres of 40mm Tracpipe costs about £2K, he saves about £300 to 400 every 75metres. Result is working pressure differentials of up to 9 mbar on some runs, the boilers keep breaking down. Cost of all the corrective work must have been £100's of K's. I hope someone had good insurance.

 

[Killy Bing]

WB says no less than 22mm at any point in the gas run

 

[Heating-eng]

WB says no less than 22mm at any point in the gas run

no they don't, they say no smaller than the boiler connection, some will work on a small amount of 15mm. Not combis

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

WB says no less than 22mm at any point in the gas run

Depends what boiler, RIs can have 15mm now

 

[Heating-eng]

Depends what boiler, RIs can have 15mm now

even 22mm is too small sometimes, been to quite a lot on 22 with undersized gas.
need to do your pipe sizing correctly at the quoting stage.

 

[AWheating]

i dont really get this use of the statement's "this manufacturer said this" and "this manufacturer said that".

it does not really matter what they suggest, a 15kw worcester or 15kw baxi or a 15kw whatever, no change in what is required. what matter's is you design/size the pipework correctly.

Most of what manufacturers state in there instructions is used by engineers as an excuse from my experience. If your using manufacturers instructions to help you decide or excuse what size gas supply you fit then you need to reevaluate your methods imo.

 

[Heating-eng]

i dont really get this use of the statement's "this manufacturer said this" and "this manufacturer said that".

it does not really matter what they suggest, a 15kw worcester or 15kw baxi or a 15kw whatever, no change in what is required. what matter's is you design/size the pipework correctly.

Most of what manufacturers state in there instructions is used by engineers as an excuse from my experience. If your using manufacturers instructions to help you decide or excuse what size gas supply you fit then you need to reevaluate your methods imo.

i agree in part but it does matter what the manufactures say, worcester did say 22mm for a 12kw boiler and you had to comply ,now they say 15mm is ok,
You still need to size the house correctly.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Dont WB let you have a 2.5mb drop between meter and boiler?

Not when commissioning the boiler, I think they say upto 2.5mb drop on an existing boiler (service) but that's just going on memory.

 

[AWheating]

i agree in part but it does matter what the manufactures say, worcester did say 22mm for a 12kw boiler and you had to comply ,now they say 15mm is ok,
You still need to size the house correctly.

the only thing the manufacturer has control over is the connection on the boiler. If you size the pipework correctly you will never not comply with the manufacturers instructions. All they are concerned about is low gas pressures when they attend a warranty call tbh which is why they sometimes state a min size to try and stop poor installs. You cant blame them for wanting to recommend a min pipesize when they attend alot of poorly fitted appliances.

 

[Barry98]

Hi All,
Just trying to get some clarification on the 15 or 22mm gas connection. I have a colleague who insists on getting all his installs changed to 22mm. I have also had confirmation from clients that BG insist on this as well but I was working under the rule of pipe run with bends and other gas appliances at max being under 1mb drop from meter to boiler?
Most boilers appear to have 22mm connections but I am fitting a Glowworm flexicom this week that has 15mm gas connection, so do you always follow manufacturers instructions but hat applies when not mentioned in the MIs?
Thanks
Kewat66

size accordingly to inlet , op pressure but be prepared if any work is done on the property after you leave if the pressure drops below MI gas safe can make you go back upto 6 YEARS to change regardless of what any further work was done

 

[goz666]

I always change gas run to 22mm as long as the pressures required are met. I wouldn't leave 15mm in even if I was getting correct pressure at the boiler. Way I see it is, at some point in future it will be classed as undersized if it's left in 15mm so I might as well take the money for it than leave it for someone else.
Also in a similar vein if I change a lead tail on the meter I always increase to 28mm.