advice needed about cylinder

[harry22]

Hi, I want to replace my fortic open vented cylinder with a Gledhill Sunspeed 2 cylinder which I have bought secondhand. I currently use the fortic cylinder for hot water only using the immersion coil on ecenomy 7 but my bills are very high as the cylinder is poorly insulated. Initially I will just replace the cylinder but eventually want to add solar system.

I have attached a diagram and photos showing how I intend to set the system up but am confused by all the connections. There are three 22mm connections together on one side at the bottom of the cylinder and on the other side there are three more plus 2 small bleed type connections.

Can anyone explain...
1 which one is the inlet connection from the feed tank.
2 There will be a spare 22mm connection, what is this for
3 Is the rest of my diagram correct
4 I currently use a trevi boost which has a venturi valve and gives an excellent shower so am not concerned about pressures, but need to know what size header tank is suitable, is 25 gallon ok?


Thanks

Harry

 

[diamondgas]

Regards pipework have you tried the gledhill website? It looks like the cold feed's the bottom connection middle photo! Ya drawing's got the basics in ... I'd imagine the "8mm" tapping's are for a heat-sink coil? Not sure! They look more like 15mm caked with lime IMO :freak:

 

[diamondgas]

harry,

Double checkin the drawing .... Why would the top two connections be for single heating coil? That'd only heat top third of the cylinder wouldn't it? have you confirmed that they are indeed what you think they are?

 

[harry22]

I spoke to Gledhill this morning. They said there were not any guides available and were not helpful generally but said that the bottom coil was for the solar panel input. I am not sure to the answer to your question but would assume that the the heat from the boiler input would eventually find its way down.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

no it will not

 

[harry22]

The two small pipes are about 8-10mm and have no thread.

The technical man at Gledhill said he wasn't going to spend hours explaining how to install a sytem and for me to call him back and blame him when it was wrong so do not want to go back there.

 

[diamondgas]

I spoke to Gledhill this morning. They said there were not any guides available and were not helpful generally but said that the bottom coil was for the solar panel input. I am not sure to the answer to your question but would assume that the the heat from the boiler input would eventually find its way down.

Easy way to find out the coil scenario. Blow through one with ya hand over the other. That'll tell you whether they're conected or not. Alternatively pass water through one and see which one it comes out of? By the way are you sure of the tapping sizes also? They look like 1"... ?

 

[markfxy]

They're pockets for the solar stats.

 

[harry22]

the tapping pipes mif thats what they are called are roughly as i said 8-10mm max with no thread.

Anyone help with any of the other questions??

Can anyone explain...
1 which one is the inlet connection from the feed tank.
2 There will be a spare 22mm connection, what is this for
3 Is the rest of my diagram correct
4 I currently use a trevi boost which has a venturi valve and gives an excellent shower so am not concerned about pressures, but need to know what size header tank is suitable, is 25 gallon ok?

thanks

 

[Gray0689]

I would not be using a used cylinder
There is usually a reason they where taken out in first place!!!!!

 

[harry22]

the guy who sold me the cylinder bought the whole solar system but has a unvented system so did not need this cylinder

Have just blown into work out coils. I was right about the bottom one which is as i have drawn it but the higher one is the two lower connections, so the top one is 'spare' It is too high for the cold inlet so that means the one at the very bottom (as diamond gas says) must be for that. So what is the spare one for?

 

[diamondgas]

Bottom pic 3 cold feed .... spare 22mm is secondary circulation return ..... Basic skills in gratitude may assist you in further assistance Harry. :yawn:

 

[ecowarm]

Harry i've just googled glehill sunspeed 2 for you and come up with this [DLMURL]http://www.gledhill.net/documents/Spec_113-01_SunSpeed.pdf[/DLMURL]

 

[harry22]

Have blown through coils and...
the bottom one is as i have drawn it, but the top one was wrong, The coil is the second and thrid connection down so the top 22mm connection is for what??

Thanks Markfxy makes that clear about tappings

 

[harry22]

Thanks ecowarm, that all makes sense now. So just need to know what spare 22mm is for and what size should the feed and expansion tank be?

 

[Gray0689]

That's an old used cylinder I'd pressure test it before it was fitted

 

[harry22]

Thanks diamond gas

what is a 'secondary circulation return', should I just cap this off??

 

[SafeGasInstall]

harry are you a plumber ?

 

[harry22]

thanks gray 0689, cylinder is only 5 years old and was taken out 18 months ago so think it is worth risk. My fuel bills are £2000 a year for small 3 bed house so am determined to do something. Am sure this will help.

 

[ecowarm]

Just cap the spare connection

 

[SafeGasInstall]

insulation + ch controls + condensing boiler will help ! new cylinder on it's own I personally do not see how this will reduce the cost of your gas bill

 

[harry22]

safegasinstall

No am not plumber,

 

[SafeGasInstall]

that is ok ,just was thinking about how safe will be for you to install the cylinder that's all !

 

[Gray0689]

insulation + ch controls + condensing boiler will help ! new cylinder on it's own I personally do not see how this will reduce the cost of your gas bill

I agree stan
You need a lot more than an old cylinder is your house badly insulated

 

[diamondgas]

Thanks Harry ... Yes just cap it! That is unless you have long runs to your hot taps and you can afford a 'bronze' pump!

 

[harry22]

sorry overlapping postss.

Most of bills cost comes from hot water.

Cylinder is in cold roof space, my wife and i have a shower each morning then hot water runs out as fortic tank is small, the 2 children then switch on immersion to heat up for themselves during the day. As this is not at economy 7 we can pay £60 upwards in a week for just hot water. The loft is always very hiot from wasted heat in fortic even when it is cold outside. I have added a jacket but does not make a difference to bills.

This cylinder is about 160 litres so will do 3 showers at economy 7 rate so am sure will help.

We live in a village

 

[harry22]

safegas,
it could go wrong...
but I did also install a complete central heating system with rads, pressurised etc connected to a heat pump which works fine. I have insulated the house as much as possible. it is the hot water which is costing all the money. I could eventually add a solar panel to this system as we have a good clear south facing roof aspect. I never have a spare few thousand to get in a proifessional so each year grow more concerned as fuel bills rise and more just annoiunced recently

 

[diamondgas]

sorry overlapping postss.

Most of bills cost comes from hot water.

Cylinder is in cold roof space, my wife and i have a shower each morning then hot water runs out as fortic tank is small, the 2 children then switch on immersion to heat up for themselves during the day. As this is not at economy 7 we can pay £60 upwards in a week for just hot water. The loft is always very hiot from wasted heat in fortic even when it is cold outside. I have added a jacket but does not make a difference to bills.

This cylinder is about 160 litres so will do 3 showers at economy 7 rate so am sure will help.

We live in a village

You got space above to fit a hedder tank? The Fortic incorporates the header did you know? I'm guessing you've been doing some homework yeh? Building tank stands and all that isn't fun! lol

 

[harry22]

thanks safegas, will cap it off as pipe lengths are not too great

All help has been great just need to know size of feed expansion tank

 

[SafeGasInstall]

is the electric you use during the day that is killing you softly + DIY always cost more at the end =just some experience

 

[harry22]

safegas, yes can see header tank in fortic, assumed that this how the heat escapes so easily.

Have been thinking about how to support header tank and will fit 2 new horizontal timbers across roof to make a platform. The fortic has a tiny feeder tank, so am hoping the new one can be small as well as I have no pressure problems, Screwfix do an 8 gallon tank but is this too small?

 

[harry22]

safegas, agree it is the daytime elec which is the killer but the cfhildren smell if I dont wash them

 

[Gray0689]

safegas,
it could go wrong...
but I did also install a complete central heating system with rads, pressurised etc connected to a heat pump which works fine. I have insulated the house as much as possible. it is the hot water which is costing all the money. I could eventually add a solar panel to this system as we have a good clear south facing roof aspect. I never have a spare few thousand to get in a proifessional so each year grow more concerned as fuel bills rise and more just annoiunced recently

Why is heat pump not working hot water also?????

 

[harry22]

gray 0689,
did not connect it to tank for a couple of reasons

the coil in the fortic is not a solar type coil with large surface area for heat transfer so was not sure of it was worth it.

also my economy 7 rate is approx 1/3rd the cost of daytime, soi figured that there was not much point in paying to heat the water up during the day when the outside temperature is higher during the day. It might be worthwhile during the summer but think that ultimately solar panels would be a better solution. Once I have this tank installed it would not cost much more to add solar panel

I would need detailed figures to answer your question

 

[Gray0689]

What do you think is won't cost much more to fit solar

 

[diamondgas]

Screwfix do an 8 gallon tank but is this too small?

Id think it's to small harry. If height is an issue you could try linking about 5 together, that gives you a more realistic amount ... IMO

 

[SafeGasInstall]

R u here to wind up all plumbers ?

 

[Gray0689]

Id think it's to small harry. If height is an issue you could try linking about 5 together, that gives you a more realistic amount ... IMO

No chance the water would be stinking in no time

You need a 50gallon tank
If head height a problem maybe a coffin tank would be better

 

[harry22]

safegas,

not intending to wind you all up, though it feels more like an manouvre behind enemy lines, The mission is to parachute me in, I have to find out information/ get the goods and get our alive, reminds me of a similar experiences when I wa dating

Back to the fortic...
If that only needed a tiny feeder tank which was part of the cylinder why do I now need 5 tanks if pressure is not a problem

 

[harry22]

gray069,
thanks just seen your note about stinking water, why does the fortic not stick, is that beacuse it is so open?

 

[harry22]

gray069

on cost of solar, a panel is around £400 plus another £2-300 in bits, am not sure exactly what I need but could always come back here for some advice...

 

[Gray0689]

No tanks joined together can couse water to go stagnant as water will not be moved properly

 

[Gray0689]

gray069

on cost of solar, a panel is around £400 plus another £2-300 in bits, am not sure exactly what I need but could always come back here for some advice...

No way you will get a decent set of solar panels for that money mate

 

[harry22]

thanks everyone, all questions answered,

 

[diamondgas]

Maths Harry ---- What flow rate are you hoping to run your shower at ... What flow rate are you getting through your ball valve?

Gray0698 .. lol... I had my tongue planted pretty firmly in my cheek when I suggested linking 5 together.... However in theory it would work :dizzy2:

 

[Gray0689]

Ok mate if you think so
The small pockets are for probes
The spare conection at bottom can be used as DOC

 

[Gray0689]

Maths Harry ---- What flow rate are you hoping to run your shower at ... What flow rate are you getting through your ball valve?

Gray0698 .. lol... I had my tongue planted pretty firmly in my cheek when I suggested linking 5 together.... However in theory it would work :dizzy2:

We will agree to disagree on ghat one mate lol

 

[harry22]

did think 5 in a row was a bit much and will just add a larger tank which i may supprt from floor of loft as well as rafters

still noone has commented on why everything works just fine with the fortic which has a tiny feeder tank. I dont know what the required flow rate is but I use a venturi valve (trevi boost) on the shower and it has worked fine for about 3 years.


Gray, what is a DOC?
cold is mains throughout house if that means anything

 

[Gray0689]

Drain off cock
Sounds like it worked ok as your only feeding the hot from cylinder

 

[harry22]

thanks, There is a drain off cock at the bottom on the other side so will cap off the spare.

So, as there is only one bathroom in the house and only the kitchen sink and the shower/bath are feeding off the cylinder would a 25 gallon tank work which would be about 3 times the size of the current fortic header tank?