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Discuss Chinese manufacture - thoughts in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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I have just returned from a 10 day, almost 20,000 mile, trip to China talking to manufacturers.

What I was expecting simply never materialised...

What are people's thoughts on Chinese manufacture and why?
 
Can`t be specific about China however in the world of macerators the fake one`s from the East look the same but are built with cheap electrical components which tend to fry.

I know of one company that was the sole importer and responsible for warranty claims here for the manufacture and in the box was his details to contact if the copy went belly up.

What didn`t materialise for you Dave?
 
I have always been led to believe that the Chinese were crap. That the products that come out of their factories were produced by people who don't give a stuff, that their business people were cut throat, dishonest and were only interested in $$$.

That is what DID NOT materialise. We kept looking tho, under every rock under every piece of paper. For any and every opportunity to validate this pre-programmed expectation, to prove Western business right.

What we found was the polar opposite. Pride beyond anything 'I' have ever experienced in work forces. Care for what they do and how they do it. A willingness to share and to help make thing better. It was, in short, bloody inconvenient!

We also experienced first hand, what we concluded, was the reason why we are fed such nonsense. Western businesses screwing Chinese suppliers so far down they have no choice but to make poor quality items. We witnessed prices that are simply unsustainable for the supplier but ultra mega profitable for the company buyers.

Then of course we poor souls pay a good price and things fall apart so we associate China with junk... The 'fault' is the sheer unadulterated greed of western business.

In our discussions we asked a question to our suppliers almost none had ever heard. "Are you making enough?" They were at first shocked, confused even. Then they realised we were serious and the attitude turned on a sixpence, doors opened and cooperation blossomed. Simply amazing.

The elephant in the room is of course, "Why not here?" Honestly? Of all the people we have approached over the last three years most never bothered even to reply to our drawings and inquiries and only two, yes just two, were prepared to work with us as a startup - those two are now long term suppliers.
 
The Chinese can make perfectly good kit. Some of Kuhn Rikon cookware is Chinese and it's pretty good stuff. When Sturmey Archer's UK plant was moved to the Far East, anecdotal evidence suggests that the machinery had been neglected to the point that it could no longer manufacture to the tollerances of specification and an old engineer would look at it and say, 'Well, it's not that far out...'. The Easterns, lacking our experience of what they could get away with, scrapped the machinery, replaced it, and thus built far better hubs than most of those made in Nottingham.

Hell, I've heard they are intelligent enough and resourceful enough to look at a demonstration of a piece of equipment, then not buy it, reverse engineer it, and make their own.

The Chinese, however, are not cutting out Western businesses as such, although some factories are indeed owned by the Chinese government. Many European businesses (for example Luxottica) opened their own factories in China where labour is cheaper, and made their European workforce redundant because they work to the best profit margin and have little sense of community. Like Thatcher, they presumably believe 'there is no such thing as society'.

My concern about China is what rights and remuneration the workers in the supply chain have, whether the factories and suppliers function to the same environmental standards as UK, and the environmental impact of importing the goods to the UK. Assuming, of course, that UK businesses are not flouting the laws themselves!

One clear advantage of UK manufacture is that it is much harder to evade or avoid tax when you have workers on the payroll and a factory to run.

Import of goods has more environmental impact with large products because it is volume that determines how much can fit on one boat, but the cost of transport for large items of plant such as AHUs and chillers (I have some experience of the costs of these) plus import duties mean that to be competitive on the UK market these items must, of course, be built to a very low cost. In any case, your flight to China is probably of more concern than the products, shipped by sea, will be.

If Chinese manufacture means low quality and exploitation at expensive UK prices, I have issues. If it means a fair wage for a fair day's work and no dumping of costs onto other people or the enviroment, I have no specific problem buying Chinese goods. What we need is for import firms to write quality into the spec and guarantee that by buying their product, you are not ripping people, and our home planet, off. Or better still, a government that truly cares about this sort of thing and legislates accordingly.

I had hoped that perhaps, with Brexit, we could change the rules so that imported goods would have to comply with all sorts of standards, thus meaning that home manufacture would become equally affordable.
 
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Such a lot of issues raised Ric.

Tis odd, to Westerners continually told otherwise, but business in China now has some very hard targets to reach in terms of environmental impact. We were told it is the Chinese Govts will to become the most environmentally friend nation on earth. This is why they have stopped taking other's Rubbish. They have finally realised that by doing so simply encourages yet more to follow. By making nations, like the UK, take responsibility for its own rubbish - instead of lying and shipping it around the planet to hide it, we will be forced to resolve the issues.

For our product, its very existence immediately saves millions of tonnes of raw material from being wasted through supply of unnecessary new taps. Plus of course adding to that the energy to drag the stuff out of the ground, processing and then manufacturing it and then shipping. So, our environmental footprint is genuinely less than 0.1% of that required to replace the tap. Therefore our journey is fully justified and offset by the massive env benefits longer term.

From what we have seen, China does not exploit its workers. I am a people watcher. When people are working hard but also laughing that does not equate to repression. Chinese workers have no sense of entitlement. For them it is a honour to be chosen to work for a company and to contribute to its future success. They retire at 60 and then look after their grand kids so their children can build themselves and their families a life. Speaking to so many that what they WANT to do. Many retire as shareholders in companies too bit they are not consumed by avarice like western shareholders.

My apologies for going on :)
 
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