Cold water mains pipe burst in cold weather - could be prevented with heating?

[familyguy]

Just a general question but where a cold water mains pipe burst in our loft which did not have any lagging at all, could this have been prevented by having the heating on?

Much appreciated.

Cheers,

David

 

[et0]

If your loft floor is sufficiently lagged and the roof well ventilated, probably not - it would have frozen anyway.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

depends how cold your loft is

 

[Blackcatgas]

Would have certainly helped.

 

[Gray0689]

Would have certainly helped.

I agree heat rises so would of been a good idea

 

[markproperjob]

sorry to dissagree, but working as a subbie to a national plumbing company, i have seen burst cold supply pipes in attics on insurance call outs literally dozens of times over the past 20 yrs.
always the same thing, loft is lagged well, but some how a section or full run of pipework feeding headers or taking an up and over shortcut for a shower supply has not been lagged at all and is laid over the top of loft insulation..
it WILL freeze if sufficiently cold, especially if water is standing in pipe for any time,will expand and split the copper or crack the plastic, and will then flood everyting below it when the ice plug thaws.
the only sure fire way to stop attic freezing is to get up there and lag all supply/feed pipes with decent thickness pipe lagging and header tanks with a bylaw kit at least.
what is worth remembering, is if loft insulation is correct and doing its job, the heat produced by the heating system WILL BE INSULATED AND KEPT BELOW THE ATTIC FLOOR so everything above, ie the attic space, will become chilly freezing!!
the only pipes that the central heating can protect are those within the direct area of heated dwelling space.
regards,
mark (down in not so sunny cornwall-darned global warming!!)

 

[royston]

The only way it would have helped would have been if you had no fibre glass laid
in your loft and the loft hatch wide open, then maybe as you've hot hair rising into your loft. But if there was a cold draft blowing through then maybe not.

 

[Gray0689]

We not disputing all pipes should be lagged should be 19mm armaflex

 

[Centralheatking]

This last winter was a real wakeupcall on many fronts to plumbers and householders alike.

1. Condensing boilers and their problems - installed properly in the right place they tended to be ok
step outside of the parameters - FAILURE

2. Frozen roof spaces and their equipment - water tanks roof fitted boilers etc SAME AGAIN its no good insulating a ceiling below the roof space and expecting the kit above to carry on working at
-14.

Perhaps the rules about insulation should be re- thought - anyway we kept all 10 of us fully occupied most of the cold time.

centralheatking

 

[WHPES]

My conclusion - any pipework and the tanks should be UNDERNEATH the loft insulation, even if this means constructing a "hut" out of kingspan (just done this - looks a bit like a wendy house!!

 

[markproperjob]

now THERES a good way to generate work......
total 100% frost free header tank enclosures......
thats definitely going on my advertisements!!

 

[dontknowitall]

In answer to the original question, yes. Water cannot freeze above zero degrees! I told my customers to leave their loft hatch open a few inches. You don't need to heat the loft to room temperature, just keep it above zero and a few pounds in "lost" heating is peanuts compared to the inconvenience of a pipe burst.

 

[markproperjob]

i wouldnt leave our farm house loft hatch open!
you'd get dragged up there by the SPIDERS!

 

[Blackcatgas]

Il bet its warmer in a loft with 300mm of insulation on the floor with the heating on than it is in a loft with 300mm of insulation on the floor with the heating off.

 

[et0]

Leaving the loft hatch open routinely in the winter doesn't just cost you fuel, you're allowing a lot of water vapour to get up there and condense on the roof timbers. A few years of that and you'll start to get mould, then rot, then it's going to be very expensive. Lag properly, leave out a bit of loft insulation below header tanks and critical pipe runs, and if it gets down to -20 leave the bathroom taps running slightly

 

[dontknowitall]

Perhaps I should have mentioned that I suggest this for the really extended cold weather periods when it doesn't rise above zero during the day. Good point though, and not one I'd thought about to be honest!

 

[familyguy]

Some very useful answers and I can see there's a lot of knowledge and experience here. I really appreciate your input to this, thank you all very much.

 

[acecharly]

i take it nobody here with a boiler in a roof space has got a boiler with a frost state then? If your boiler is fitted within the main living space you could always put a stat in the loft obviously this will not save your domestic runs though.

 

[Howsie]

All my kit is in the loft including the boiler and unvented cylinder.

 

[WHPES]

Trouble is that most of the advice is aimed at new builds and of course none have pipework in roofspaces and fitted with old fashioned gravity systems anymore, so the insulation companies don't give the header tanks a lot of thought.