Do any Gas Fitters use Part P electrics? Assistance required

[mollymoo]

Hello everyone,

I am hoping that you can help us out with an issue regarding our sons training, I know this is the plumbers forum but I wanted to find out some 'real world' answers before we commit to paying out ££££ for a qualification that he may or may not, need.

He is undertaking a 5 year plumbing & gas apprenticeship and is presently working towards completing his NVQ Level 3 but is getting a bit worried about what is called 'Part P electrics'

The NVQ Level 3 covers wiring but some of the other lads on his day release college course have started to undertake Part P domestic electric installer courses to get on competent person schemes - There seems to be a 'panic' on to do this and get on these schemes before next year when all domestic electrical work can only be completed by those with an NVQ Level 3 in electrics (Which I can understand from a safety point of view) which has got him a bit unerved as he hsn't been offered the chance to do a Part P scheme by his employer (Basically his employer won't pay for the extra qualification)
Our sons employer is Part P registered himself so can self certify any new installations that he may put in but our concern is that should our son ever go self employed (which is his long term goal) that he might be at a disadvantage if he isn't on an electrical comptence scheme.

Our question is in the real world of gas fitting do any of you qualified Gas fitters do any 'notifiable' work on a day to day basis of changing/ replacing/ servicing boilers etc?

Paul, our son, has already said that the only electrical work HE does on site is replacing showers like for like which is non notifiable (and has even said that once he goes self employed in a few years any major refits that involve major work like new circuits he would just get an electrician in for) - Any new installs at present his boss does, but even when I have spoken to his employer direct about this subject he won't give me a straight answer for whatever reason (We think he is frightened that once our son has completed his 5 years he will just up and leave so wants to 'keep' him which is good on one hand but I don't want Paul to be left disadvantaged long term because of his employers reluctance to help him further his career outside of his company)

Because of this if Paul is to do the Part P course, the 17th edition & the CG inspection and testing, join a competent person scheme and buy the required test equipment we will have to pay it for him - so far we have worked it out at 3k ++ to get it all done together with the annual membership fees of the schemes. We don't mind putting ourselves in a financial hole if it helps him long term but we don't want to have to take out a loan if he isn't going to use the Part P on anything other than a regular basis!

Please please please can I have some straight talking answers from the gas fitters out there? On the 'wet' side of plumbing I know what the scope of electrical work is involved but haven't got a clue what the Gas boys do on a day to day basis that might be classed as 'notifiable' ?!

 

[wheeto]

... replacing showers like for like which is non notifiable

All electrical work in bathrooms, including like-for-like replacement, is notifiable.

 

[mollymoo]

All electrical work in bathrooms, including like-for-like replacement, is notifiable.

Just looked up on the web and according to the Part P document like for like replacement in Zone 1 isn't notifiable but I'm not a tradesman so its only in the past week that this has all come up so have only just started looking at the requirements for Part P - I'm not on here to argue the ins and outs of what is or isn't so don't want this thread to go 'off topic' but what I need to know is if he needs Part P when he gets his Gas qualifications?

 

[tamz]

If he is doing a proper apprenticeship his employer is under no obligation to put him through part P as it is not a part of his training. He is being trained as a plumber / gas fitter not an electrician.

Depending on what he may decide to do in the future it may or may not be a worthwhile thing to have but it is certainly not necessary.
Work on heating systems may require a knowledge of some electrics but part P stuff has little to do with that subject. If system wiring or new circuits are required it is usually better and more cost effective to simply get a spark in as and when required. It is allowed for in the price of the job so there is no outlay and no responsibility for the plumber / engineer.

Not having it will not put him at a disadvantage.

 

[dancinplumba]

if your son wants part p and register he has to do it before july this year, after then he will need his 17th and inspection & testing. not all work requires notification, but all work with 230v requires a cert ie minor works. and includes boiler controls and pump replacemets...unless am mistaken and imho

 

[Chrisgy]

Not many plumbers/gas installers have part p, some will just wire it up anyway and some will get an electrician who he can pass work to and sometimes get work in return

 

[REDSAW]

if your son wants part p and register he has to do it before july this year, after then he will need his 17th and inspection & testing. not all work requires notification, but all work with 230v requires a cert ie minor works. and includes boiler controls and pump replacemets...unless am mistaken and imho

so your saying, to change the pcb on a boiler you need 17th ed as its 240v feed?.

 

[gasmarc]

Save your money imho as the list of things you can pay for is beyond belief and sods law will more than likely change. Your son is lucky to have a job , I know people who have paid to go through collage and cannot get work and there is going to be loads more joining that queue Guaranteed

 

[GQuigley67]

does this rubbish apply in scotland ?? i usually do my own wiring but now working for a firm who have their own sparkys do the wiring

 

[tamz]

It doesn't Gerry but you may still need a minor works cert which means you have to sub it out to a spark. Depends on the work you are doing and who you are doing it for.

 

[GQuigley67]

as far as i'm aware after the spur were allowed to work on the electrics, were not allowed to spur off the ring mains or wire in showers, although that type of stuff i get a spark in anyway, probably in the future no doubt we will have to do this part P aswell

 

[dancinplumba]

so your saying, to change the pcb on a boiler you need 17th ed as its 240v feed?.

no only if its outside the boiler

 

[PowerFlusher2]

GQuigley67 has it absolutely right. If somebody in government sees getting all plumbers/heatingengineers/GSR as a nice little earner (especially for a company/register he can set up privately to deal with it) then EVERYBODY will be required to join a fee charging group to be able to do anything with gas or electricity or water or solar - the list is endless!

 

[Mbear]

Aslong as he can wire a central heating sys from the spur downstream and also fault find on it then i wouldn't bother with it. Your son will became pally with other tradesman in time and one of them will no doubt be a spark. A job for a job is how me and my friend do it. For instance I'm fitting my best mates (the spark) central heating in his new house that he's currently renovating for no more than a "thanks mate", in return he's done all sorts in my house and my parents house for the same price.

He'd be better to wire the heating systems on his own anyway or at least learn how to do it, sparks are able to wire everything except for heating systems for some reason, IMO it's because they don't know why this wire goes here or there whereas gas engineers understand the logic of it. Sparkys up to the spur and gas man after

 

[dancinplumba]

how does he prove he is capable of wiring downstream of spur ? is spur fed with correct size cable etc. is spur capable of taking what is being wired into it, is the wiring to that pump on a 20 yr old system capeable of taking that 15/60 you have just put in without testing it. is it in a kitchen or a bathroom ? changin 240 v controls in there ?

 

[Mbear]

how does he prove he is capable of wiring downstream of spur ? is spur fed with correct size cable etc. is spur capable of taking what is being wired into it, is the wiring to that pump on a 20 yr old system capeable of taking that 15/60 you have just put in without testing it. is it in a kitchen or a bathroom ? changin 240 v controls in there ?

Downstream means after spur.

 

[dancinplumba]

i know and its 230v

 

[Mbear]

i know and its 230v

Yes. Listen bud, I'm not getting a spark in every time i change a pump, I'd have to employ one to follow me round all day

 

[Mbear]

i know and its 230v

Yes. Listen bud, I'm not getting a spark in every time i change a pump, I'd have to employ one to follow me round all day

 

[dancinplumba]

i know bud its a ballache innit but thats the regs. when you notify boiler through gassafe they want location if its kit or bath and they want to do inspection they will want part p cert. ad who get the **** wen it goes **** up ??? deffo alll a ballache

 

[dancinplumba]

it takes plumber and a spark to change shr lol unless you part p

 

[tamz]

Everyone can get a bit paranoid about the wiring of heating but if we are honest and as we all know, most sparks know as much about heating as we do the 17th edition.
It is an overlapping part of the trade. We know our bit and they know the technical stuff of why.
Heating runs on less than 2 amp so cable size is irrelevant. Who cares about voltage drop and Zd's, it is also irrelevant in this case.
Heating is like plugging a lamp in. Anyone can do it but if you need a spur unless the board has trip switches you "alledgedly" need an rcd spur.#
It depends where and for who you are working and will never change.

 

[dancinplumba]

not paranoid, and agree bout sparks but it is sad fact that is how it is what happens when sh*t hits ? a spur should be able to take max load. dis agree that its like pluggin lamp in otherwise sparks coild do it.

 

[tamz]

Thankfully up here in scotland we don't have to put up with part p.

 

[gasmarc]

its getting to the stage where we will be paying more money to line other peoples pockets just before we can go to work :59: . My mate is a sparks for over 40 years and has wired everything and has refused to keep doing these upgrades every few years, Cant say I blame him

 

[Hybrid]

i know bud its a ballache innit but thats the regs. when you notify boiler through gassafe they want location if its kit or bath and they want to do inspection they will want part p cert. ad who get the **** wen it goes **** up ??? deffo alll a ballache

Nonsense, I had an inspection last year to a boiler install in a bathroom, not a word mentioned. It's none of their business who did the electrics and it's beyond their remit to query it.

 

[desrob]

part p is nonsense,ask your sparky.just another money making scam aimed at them on the fridges of the trade

 

[bob the plumber]

haven't read all the posts but why dont you think about doing part p defined scope which will cover you for the scope of work you may be working in, interlock, fuse spur wiring inc bathroom lighting etc. not necessary to to do full scope electrics. I have part p defined scope but if things get tricky like the other guys say we get an electrician in

 

[bob the plumber]

part p defined doesnt cost the earth either, your talking 500 quid max

 

[Barry98]

thats what im booked on

Electrical Part P - Defined Scope BPEC (Level 3) - Brookhouse Gas Training Centre

 

[desrob]

thats what im booked on

Electrical Part P - Defined Scope BPEC (Level 3) - Brookhouse Gas Training Centre

waste of money,what about 17th edition you need that too.

 

[bob the plumber]

waste of money,what about 17th edition you need that too.

whys that a waste of money? its exactly what you need without having to fully train as an electrician?

 

[Barry98]

am doing it to improve my knowledge of electrics and further my own devolpment . i dont know everything and dont claim to. i would do the 17th edition if i wanted to be a sparky then again if i wanted to be a sparky i would of sat at the back of the class picking my nose with the rest of them

 

[bob the plumber]

i did the the part p defined for the same reason bod, my idea of testing a live used to be just touching the cable i do what i need to do know, if its messy and im not sure then ill get the fully qualified guys in to sort it like most engineers out there

 

[desrob]

am doing it to improve my knowledge of electrics and further my own devolpment . i dont know everything and dont claim to. i would do the 17th edition if i wanted to be a sparky then again if i wanted to be a sparky i would of sat at the back of the class picking my nose with the rest of them

you have to do 17th edition period,your part p defined full scope means nothing.