Do Zone valves have to be added?

[Petefinny]

Hi guys i have come to a gravity fed system and they want a new boiler, the system is not zoned off for the hot water central heating, is it current regs now that they have to be zoned? Thanks guys

 

[SimonJohns]

Yes new regs do say that.

But if your just swapping a boiler you don't have to upgrade the rest of the system if the customer can't afford it

Just make sure the boiler you get will work with gravity water

 

[Petefinny]

Its a heat only Main HE a, what do you do with the bench mark then?

 

[chris watkins]

Yes, Part L fully pumped only (& new boiler will almost certainly not work with gravity anyway), TRV,s on all the rads accept the room which has the room thermostat in it.

 

[Petefinny]

sorry its its a pumped open vented system not gravity fed

 

[SimonJohns]

Its a heat only Main HE a, what do you do with the bench mark then?

.... Say it's gravity hot water

 

[SimonJohns]

I think you should write your system description again

I'm lost

 

[Petefinny]

Ha Ha sorry guys, its a fully pumped system that go's to open vent , it has a main he A heat only installed

 

[SimonJohns]

You can still fit open vent

 

[Petefinny]

The landlord is saying he cant afford to have it zoned, but it has to be benchmarked and notified to the building authorities and if it is not zoned then its not up to current regs is it not?

 

[SimonJohns]

if the customer cant afford the upgrades you cant install them

just install the your parts to current regs, e.g. BAND A BOILER

personally, i would turn this job down
1. its a land lord
2. their tight.
3, open vent can require some more experience
4, its a landlord.
5, you prob wont get paid

 

[lame plumber]

The landlord is saying he cant afford to have it zoned, but it has to be benchmarked and notified to the building authorities and if it is not zoned then its not up to current regs is it not?

you have just answered your own question, if you dont do it properly then you become another one of those cowboys the world likes to hit on. Walk away, you do have a reputation thats good ,I presume, and doing these jobs won't enhance it

 

[Mike Jackson]

I personally don't see an issue with it. As far as I've heard zoning is only a requirement on new systems anyway and if the customer doesn't want TRVs just make a note in the benchmark.

 

[Gray0689]

I personally don't see an issue with it. As far as I've heard zoning is only a requirement on new systems anyway and if the customer doesn't want TRVs just make a note in the benchmark.

Totally agree

 

[Petefinny]

Is there a number for building regs where you can get it set in stone what happens in this situation, its best to know any way if the problem arises again. Thank you guys for all your help.

 

[Petefinny]

Hi guys ive just found this on the honeywell site Frequently Asked Questions

 

[doitmyself]

I personally don't see an issue with it. As far as I've heard zoning is only a requirement on new systems anyway and if the customer doesn't want TRVs just make a note in the benchmark.

This was discussed at length a few months ago.

The OP eventually got in touch with the relevant government department who advised that zoning is only required on new builds or where the complete system including piping is being replaced; and then only if cost effective.

See page 4, post #57.

 

[Petefinny]

Thats settled one argument but what about the bench mark and validating the boiler warranty if it does not comply with the benchmark.

 

[Gray0689]

Just write on benchmark that's what customer wants simple as that

 

[stevetheplumber]

thats my take on it all now if they dont want to pay for whats needed to bring it up to standard i do what they pay for and where it says does this system conform to standards i just put no no body reads it anyway

 

[SimonG]

It's not zoning as such. But you should be swapping the hot water onto pumped as a minimum. As Chris said it's part of part L. If it's a landlord and they cant afford those mods, what's the chances of getting all your money.

In my opinion, do it right or don't do it.

 

[chris watkins]

Have a look at the link in the old post to the complaints guide that is the document that sets out what is required for each system in each case.

IMHO the minimum required to notify under Part L is time & temperature control on two zones (heating & hot water) with TRV's on all the rads except the one room which has the room stat.
As others have said all Landlords are poor & given the choice will not have these controls installed, so we should not be giving them any option, the reason is simple a well controlled heating system allows the tenants to use the heating & HW efficiently which is both there interest as well as our planets.

 

[doitmyself]

Thats settled one argument but what about the bench mark and validating the boiler warranty if it does not comply with the benchmark.

The Benchmark says: "The heating and hot water system complies with the appropriate Building Regulations."

According to the advice from the DCLG you can still tick the 'yes' box (assuming the other provisions have been met) if you only have a single zone.

 

[AWheating]

theres a difference between seperate zones on the heating and having seperate control of the heating and hot water which is whats being questioned. The boiler/system must have interlock, time and temp controls.

theres a good argument for not zoning heating due to costs, but why should a tight landlord not have to help save the planet like the rest of us by not fitting the bare min required?

 

[Petefinny]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

 

[chris watkins]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

& put this one down to experience Pete, about the only chance it has of coming to light, funny enough, is if he does sell the house !!

 

[AWheating]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

tell him that without the correct controls to meet the regs you cant correctly fill out the information required to register and get the buildng compliance certificate. With out this cert he will struggle to ever sell the house.

 

[erpkid]

Building control here,which comes under Braintree district council,insist on zoning and full Monty on new build and also where there was no previous central heating. So if there is some sort of system in there is wriggle room for impecunious customers or short armed and deep pocketed landlords. Have a word with building control they will be more than happy to advise.

 

[Petefinny]

I need to go about it a sneaky way so that i dont upset the customer and get paid for the work but alkso dont land my self in trouble with the relevant building authorities!!

 

[Gray0689]

I need to go about it a sneaky way so that i dont upset the customer and get paid for the work but alkso dont land my self in trouble with the relevant building authorities!!

If you think doing it sneaky is good your a joke

 

[Petefinny]

No i mean i dont want him to try and pull any tricks because i have said it is not up to current standards and he wont get his warranty then he might claim the job is no good, you know what people like this are like, anything to get out of paying for the work that has been done, and to call me a joke is not the done thing to do now is it?

 

[Hybrid]

A joke? That's a bit harsh. Why should pete have to step in and be the part L police?
It's not your job to save the world single handedly. If the government cares that much about compliance they'd give us tax breaks for ensuring all our installs are energy efficient. As it is they've delegated that responsibility to us, stroked our egos and told us we're the front line in saving the planet and some of us have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Pete, get the job done, make it clear on the benchmark you complied as mush as possible and get paid. Caring for the environment is all well and good but why must it be at the expense of your business?

 

[Gray0689]

No i mean i dont want him to try and pull any tricks because i have said it is not up to current standards and he wont get his warranty then he might claim the job is no good, you know what people like this are like, anything to get out of paying for the work that has been done, to call me a joke is not the done thing to do now is it?

I apologise I read it as you wanted to be underhand not to cover your back
Best of luck anyway

 

[chris watkins]

A joke? That's a bit harsh. Why should pete have to step in and be the part L police?
It's not your job to save the world single handedly. If the government cares that much about compliance they'd give us tax breaks for ensuring all our installs are energy efficient. As it is they've delegated that responsibility to us, stroked our egos and told us we're the front line in saving the planet and some of us have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Pete, get the job done, make it clear on the benchmark you complied as mush as possible and get paid. Caring for the environment is all well and good but why must it be at the expense of your business?

I agree hybrid "A joke" was harsh from someone who's normal position is more akin to yours. However even he cant match your twaddle above, who's talking about saving the world single handed ? They do, its called - VAT at 5% for energy saving measures. Why would a government (elected by you) not expect heating professionals to take responsibility for advising customers of their duties under the Law when having controls installed, who else would you suggest is suitable for that role ??? What have I fallen for hook & line ? the fact that we are all living on the same plant as one another & how is it at the expense of your business ? It is only because there are people like you who are willing to carry out installs without complying that there is an opportunity for a cost difference.

 

[Gray0689]

Please elaborate what I'm like chris