Freeze incoming main lead pipe (irregular shape)

[NJD1977]

Hi

I have a problem with an internal stop-tap which has seized open (tried penetrating oil / spanner etc - the spindle will move but only a little bit back and forth). There is no evidence of an external stop tap in the pavement although I have called United Utilities to do a trace and locate in the next few days, but they have said even if they locate where it might be, it is highly unlikely they will excavate and expose as they no longer deem it a requirement / obligation for them to have external stop taps.

The internal stop tap has 15mm copper wiped into the existing lead pipe. Where the wipes are the lead pipe is irregular in diameter ranging from 22mm to ~30mm. If I use a 28mm freeze kit on this and straddle over the lead wipes (from 22mm below the wipe to 15mm copper above the wrap) is this likely to be successful? Also is there any problems in principle with freezing so close to the elbow. I have attached a photo which speaks a thousand words.

Also - I presume electric hired freeze machines are not suitable for lead? They all just refer to copper/steel.

Many thanks for any views / help.

 

[NJD1977]

Alternatively, am I best to hire an electric pipe freezer which has small contact clamps and try to freeze the short section of vertical copper before the elbow? The clamps are around 50mm long and it looks like I could just about get a clamp onto this section before the elbow. They are about £50/day but at least once they are frozen there's no rush to get the new stop tap fitted.

 

[glasgowplumber]

If you're not a plumber I'd stay clear of that to be honest. Get somebody in

 

[tolly]

Have you tried loosening the packing gland nut off first, its the nut nearest to the round spindle. Loosen it off with a spanner, then get two pair of grips, use one to hold the body of the stopcock and the other around the handle of the stopcock to turn and give you some leverage.

 

[tolly]

That existing stopcock doesn't look in the worst condition

 

[NJD1977]

That existing stopcock doesn't look in the worst condition

No it's not, it's only around 10yrs old and was working fine on and off all last week (as we were replacing a bathroom and regularly turning on/off), then it suddenly jammed open on Monday. It's really strange why it would suddenly jam, I can only think a thread has caught and misaligned in the spindle............if this is even possible.

 

[NJD1977]

Have you tried loosening the packing gland nut off first, its the nut nearest to the round spindle. Loosen it off with a spanner, then get two pair of grips, use one to hold the body of the stopcock and the other around the handle of the stopcock to turn and give you some leverage.

No I haven't tried this yet as I didn't want to cause the gland to leak and not be able to fix it or isolate the water from the road. I am due to go on holiday for a week tomorrow and last thing I need is a leaking pipe immediately before I go. Am I likely to cause leaks by loosening the gland nut?

 

[NJD1977]

If you're not a plumber I'd stay clear of that to be honest. Get somebody in

I wasn't going to do it myself, my Father in law is a time served plumber with 40yrs experience so he was going to do it, but he's not done much pipe freezing in the past, and not on mains pressure lead before..............so I'm asking for him really as he's not very internet savvy!

 

[brum]

hi there if it was me doing it I would remove earth strap and freeze pipe just there.Make sure there is no water movement ie no taps open etc as moving water will not freeze.have dust sheets and towels spread around pipe with new stoptap and tools to hand be quick and fit the tap on downstream side first making sure tap is closed after fitting (I would fit tap with tap open in case of thawing and imm shut upon fitting-less resistance) towels are for worse case scenario when you will end up doing job live and get wet.Hope this helps don't forget to refit earth strap/
use of a temp continuity bond is advisable .

 

[Paulplumb]

You are trying to turn it the right way?

I would be surprised I couldn't get that tap to move. Maybe you're being a bit too gentle?

 

[NJD1977]

You are trying to turn it the right way?

I would be surprised I couldn't get that tap to move. Maybe you're being a bit too gentle?

Yeah turning clockwise, it only moves freely around a 1/10th of a turn before jamming tight. Father in law also put a spanner on it for extra leverage and tried to put as much force as he dared on it, but it wouldn't budge.

It doesn't sound like a traditional seizing issue (i.e. threads all bound together from corrosion / residue etc.) as it was working fine all weekend so it sounds more like some physical problem / blockage in the spindle threads. Is it even possible for a stop tap to cross thread? That's all I can think of really.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'd be wary about freezing that to be honest....

 

[lame plumber]

lead and freezing equals big leak in my books, dont even go there esp mains pressure

 

[NJD1977]

lead and freezing equals big leak in my books, dont even go there esp mains pressure

Thanks for the response. What would be the course of action then? If I can't turn water off either inside or outside that's a situation that already gives me sleepless nights.

If I tell UU that I've had advice not to attempt to freeze the supply will they then be obligated to do something about the outside stop tap?

 

[T & H Plumbing]

stay clear and get a Plumber who knows what there doing, working on Mains pressure pipe is risky if you dont get the freeze right you going to be very wet