Search the forum,

Discuss Greenstar 4000 runs almost continually. Not good. in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

Messages
7
Last May had a new Greenstar 4000 boiler fitted and only recently started using the heating. Once the set room temperature is reached the boiler modulates (presumably) and stays running for very long periods (many hours) but the circulating water is only luke warm (about 35 degrees) Any heating engineer would know that there is virtually no heat radiation at that lower temperature. I find this a great waste of gas and electricity and accomplishes very little. This may be the mode of operation that Worcester intended but they do not have to pay for the gas and electricity.
Question. I want to hard wire a conventual thermostat. Is this possible and what terminations do I use on the boiler control board? Any information, advice or suggestions would be much appreciated.
 
What controls do you have ?
 
What’s the boiler temp set to as the comfort II doesn’t adjust the flow temp
 
Do you have the hot water pre heat on ? Eg not eco ?
 
"Any heating engineer would know that there is virtually no heat radiation at that lower temperature"

They would also know that's one of the mechanisms used by controls with 'load compensation'. The thermostat tells the boiler to reduce the flow temperature when demand is low to reduce cycling. This form of control should save 3% of fuel compared with the type of on-off thermostat you are planning to replace it with. This is largely because the nice constant temperature allows you to set the thermostat to a lower average temperature than is needed with on-off control.
 
"Any heating engineer would know that there is virtually no heat radiation at that lower temperature"

They would also know that's one of the mechanisms used by controls with 'load compensation'. The thermostat tells the boiler to reduce the flow temperature when demand is low to reduce cycling. This form of control should save 3% of fuel compared with the type of on-off thermostat you are planning to replace it with. This is largely because the nice constant temperature allows you to set the thermostat to a lower average temperature than is needed with on-off control.
Thank you Chuck for your reply. I am aware of the so called 'comfort' mode but I cannot afford the luxury of a 'nice constant temperature'. That's ok if I'm sitting around all day doing little but if I am busy dashing around doing jobs etc or if I to go out for half a day etc I want to turn the heating down or off I expect boiler to turn off until I feel I want it warmer. I hate the idea of using gas and electricity (pump 96watt) besides wear on the pump (running continuously.) Same if a go away for a week or at night etc I want the house cooler. I've used a conventual on/off thermostat for the last 60 years without the slightest discomfort.
So, can a on/off thermostat be wired into the 4000? Thanks for your attention.
 
I am aware of the so called 'comfort' mode but I cannot afford the luxury of a 'nice constant temperature'. That's ok if I'm sitting around all day doing little but if I am busy dashing around doing jobs etc or if I to go out for half a day etc I want to turn the heating down or off I expect boiler to turn off until I feel I want it warmer.
With respect, that is not the issue you described in post #1. Your complaint was that the boiler was supplying the small amount of heat required to maintain the setpoint, which is what a correctly working modern system should do and it will be more efficient than using an on-off thermostat.

In post #9 you've changed your complaint and now seem to be saying that, for example, if the room temperature is 20°C and you reduce the thermostat setpoint to 17°C the boiler continues to supply heat to radiators even though you actually want the room to cool. If this is the case, then there is an issue that needs to be sorted out. Things I would look at, in order are:

(a) The communication between the boiler and thermostat. Some systems (I'm not sure about yours) will have a 'safe mode' that runs the boiler at low power when there is a communication fault to guard against frost damage.

(b) The thermostat configuration of the themostat. Although it looks simple, the thermostat contains a 7-day event programmer that can change the setpoint up to 6 times a day for heating and 3 times for hot water. If you just turn the thermostat down manually, the setting will only stick until the next programmed 'event' overrides it. (The way round this is to activate 'party mode' for the length of time you want your manual setting to stick.)

(c) Reverse circulation causing activity in the hot water section of the system to warm radiators as a sided effect. This is usually a plumbing / installation error.

(d) Depending on how your system is plumbed, a stuck-open zone valve may be constantly demanding heat from the boiler. The thermostat can't shut the valve but can tell the boiler to supply minimum heat.

(e) An incorrectly set parameter in the thermostat, e.g. a minimum room temperature that is too high.

The above suggestions are based on my memory of how the Greenstar 4000 and Comfort+llRF usually work together so may or may not be applicable to your system.

So, can a on/off thermostat be wired into the 4000? Thanks for your attention.

Yes it can.

But my suggestion is you get the installer of the system back to address your concerns. Installers are supposed to make sure that the system is working correctly and that the customer understands the controls and how it should behave as the final part of the commissioning exercise. It is not uncommon for customers who have boilers installed in the summer to discover problems only when the weather gets colder.
 
Many thanks Chuck for your detailed reply. I've not actually changed my complaint, it's really just the addition of information regarding what I would expect (like) to happen.

Your point (a) the coms between controller and boiler seems good as I'm getting a signal level of '7' and the distance between is not great.

(b) I have the controller set to 'OFF' as I thought this would give me the ability to control the heating manually.

(c) The DHW is set to 'OFF' and so is the Pre Heat so don't thing there would be warm rads from DHW side.

(d) There are no Zone valves in my system.

(e) I don't think this is relevant in this case but to be honest the +llRF is a mystery to me as I've not had any previous experience with these.

Although I cannot complain about the installer or the installation, he did not brief me in any great detail and as you suggest it was a summer installation and only relatively recently started using the heating regularly.

Have attached wiring diagram although can't tell if the links are in or out (without opening up the boiler) or if the live from the proposed stat comes in at '3'.
BoilerWiring.jpg
Thank you for your time.

Paul.
 
Your point (a) the coms between controller and boiler seems good as I'm getting a signal level of '7' and the distance between is not great.
There would be an error code displayed on the thermostat if this were the problem.
(b) I have the controller set to 'OFF' as I thought this would give me the ability to control the heating manually.
No, it means the thermostat won't call for heat unless the the room temperature falls below 5°C, i.e. frost protection mode.

The 'on' mode is for permanent manual control.

If you want to pursue things further yourself, take a look at what the display on the boiler is telling you. Are there any error messages?
Although I cannot complain about the installer or the installation,
You are more forgiving than I would be. The boiler they supplied and installed is not responding correctly to the controls they supplied and fitted. They need to come back and fix it.
Have attached wiring diagram although can't tell if the links are in or out (without opening up the boiler) or if the live from the proposed stat comes in at '3'.
At the moment you system is under warranty. Don't void it by taking the case off. Get the installer to come back and sort it out for you. If they are uncooperative, call Worcester Bosch and get them to intervene.
 
I've never seen error codes displayed.

Sorry, I meant 'ON' in other words not on 'Auto'.

I will get in touch with the installer and get him to come round and clarify things. Will let you know if anything significant transpires..

Thanks for the warning about the warranty. And thanks for your help and advice.
 

Reply to Greenstar 4000 runs almost continually. Not good. in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

Similar plumbing topics

We are from Alberta, and I own an electrical company. I have been asked by a BC Mechanical P. Eng. to install an emergency STOP button at the man-door to the boiler room. It's intent is to 'halt' the operation of the boilers in the room should there be an emergency. He is demanding that I do...
Replies
5
Views
251
We run a community village hall and have a large kitchen provided for the use of hirers. This includes a Lincat SLR9 gas cooker which I believe is a 23.8Kw appliance with all six burners and oven on max. This was installed some 10 years ago and has passed all subsequent Gas Safety inspections as...
Replies
5
Views
445
Hello all, I’m replacing a concrete paving slab patio in the back yard. The original patio used 50mm deep concrete slabs on hardcore & sand. I’m planning to pour a 100mm deep concrete patio on 100mm hardcore. In order to achieve the same final height to line up with the rest of the patio, I...
Replies
6
Views
231
Hello all, I'm would like to extend an existing outside tap to another point in the garden. I'm about to pour a concrete patio and was hoping to run the water line underneath. There are existing drain (and who knows what) pipes running along the same wall so I'm nervous about digging too far...
Replies
6
Views
227
Hi all I'm hoping someone can shine a light on this for me Since our stop tap on the pavement has now been filled with sand for whatever reason, we are relying on our property fitted stopcock (this is outside on our garage wall) Unfortunately turning this to the closed position only reduces...
Replies
3
Views
243
Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

Newest Plumbing Threads

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock