Hi John,
many thanks for your detailed post in return.
I had overdone things yesterday and the day before, playing with the heating system, as a consequence I wasn't able to sum up the strength to reply to you last night, so my apologies.
I saw from your profile that you lived in Cork, hence I realised that asking you to come and look at my heating might be a bit problematic
)
- I once went to a wedding in Cork, lovely place to visit... Spent the whole wedding night woohing some lass from America, early hours down by the harbour, getting locked out of my digs, somehow ended up in 'her' room.. now that holds good memories
You have an interesting background, mine is 30 years in software development/engineering/design/etc both as an employee and running my own one man band. Interestingly, I did 5 years contract work at GSK. Right now, I'm an employee for an Investment Bank, however due to long term Illness/disability I'm unable to work.
So, though i'm not a plumber in any shape or form, I have a fairly good understanding of how things work and a high capacity to learn quickly, smartly and most importantly correctly.
- What I find challenging, like in most technical industries (IT is the worst), is that accurate/useful information is hard to get, many people who are experts, understand day to day practical things but don't have the capacity/ability to share their knowledge to educate others, with many hiding behind the 'oh you will not be able to understand mantra', when it is in fact they just don't have the knowledge themselves.
- Technical support helplines are a hit and miss affair, Grundfos is a typical prime example of a particularly bad one, when I've called them for advice on their own products they hide behind the 'unless you are a G3 Engineer/system designer' we aren't talking to you... or we don't give advice you will have to talk to your system designer...
Then even when I've escalated to their Head of Customer Support and clearly demonstrated my capabilities and that their software product has no documentation, is full of holes/bugs and is totally unusable... Their claim is it doesn't need documentation as any G3 Engineer can use it... Interesting that their product refers to terminology that doesn't appear anywhere on the entire internet...
- I may later, if you are willing, ask you some questions that may point some light on questions I have about this software...
Anyway, sorry to babble on, but it's always interesting to have a side conversation going on..
The noise comes about when throttling down the lockshields to restrict flow and then upping the pressure output of the pump to get enough flow around the system...
- I need to try running the pump in PP Max mode after balancing, to see if it solves the noise issue, I was using constant curve.
With all the lockshields fully open, the noise disappears, however as a consequence, some of the Rads, mainly the ones in the downstairs front room don't heat.
FYI, going back to the original reason for wanting to balance the system was:
1) Front Room, Bedroom 2, Ensuite Shower Room not able to heat up and maintain heat when outside temperature <5c.
- Doesn't help that New Build House has insulation issues. This is being worked on, but a major problem getting builder/warranty company to fix, but slowly getting there... (Working on this for 3yrs!)
2) Rads overheats easily.
3) TADO smart TRVs struggles with the issues above.
4) Boiler continuously short cycles.
Software Balancing
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I would like to retry using the Grundfos 'Go Balance' software:
Theoretically, it should work well, it uses the pump's abilities to measure flow/pressure/etc to detect the heating system and radiator capabilities, together with user input to calculate heat loss... It will then guide the user to throttle each radiator to set a certain flow.
- However, when I've used this software, some inputs i've had to guess, which could be the reason that it hasn't worked well... - Some rads not heating well, always at least one cold... (The software gives a choice of running system in AutoAdapt or PP afterwards, I had always gone with AutoAdapt, which may have not helped..)
If you are, willing, I would like to run the user inputs past you, as you probably can come up with far better inputs to use... Let me know if it is ok to ask?
Manual Balancing
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If in the end the software fails to get it right, I will then need to use manual balancing with a temperature gauge (I have an InfraRed Flur gun) - I did struggle to know what mode to run the pump in, to mimic Fix Run Speed 2, but I'm thinking CC set to a setpoint of 65%??
AAV
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Yep, learnt my lesson previously on this one, I have the AAV closed after removing air from the filling process.
- It would be hard to fit a isolation valve, purely due to the AAV currently screwed into a bolt that has been solder into a Tee that itself is soldered into small very tight pipework, redoing the pipework would take major surgery and the other issue is I haven't taught myself how to solder (yet), so ideally I would be using compression components, which isn't ideal...
I haven't closed the Air Separator, should I?
ABV
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I'm not actually sure if one is actually needed... It have never seen it open in AutoAdpat/PP modes and I have not had any issues with my boiler when the heating circuits and bypass are closed, even though the boiler manual states a bypass is required.
- Interestingly though, Glowworm support have told me that the boiler has no minimum flow requirements, which contridicts the manual.
Delta T through the Rads.
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Part of the exercise to gather information for the 'Go Balance' software, I have all the technical specs of each radiator and specifications of each room, plus me Infrared temperature gun.
Magnaclean
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I fitted it in December, checked in on Thursday, it was practically clean, a miniscule amount on it.
- Interestingly, when I put the ABV back on Thursday, the elbow I took off (which was put in its place when I took it out, had a bit of blackness settled in it. Guessing it had settled there due to the manual bypass being closed)
Pipework Layout
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As far as I can tell the pump is on the flow side, certainly the flow pipe from the boiler heats first, the pump is before the 2 way valves to radiator/HW circuits.
I can't be 100% sure as pipework is hidden between boiler and airing cupboard that contains the pump, valves, expansion tank, HW cylinder.
Is there a sure way to tell??
Expansion Vessel position
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The pipework to the expansion vessel comes off the return pipework back to the boiler.
I've attached a photo of the pipework, let me know if more photos are required.
View attachment 37026
Legend:
A - Return to boiler.
B - Flow from boiler.
C - Radiator return from downstairs and upstairs rads.
D - Flow to downstairs radiators.
E - Cold Water feed.
F - Hot water out of the cylinder.
Note:
The 2 way valves for downstairs and upstairs are wired together, I did this as TADO only works with one physical zone. - I may at a later date, re-pipe to only have one 2 way valve to control the radiator circuit.
The layout of return pipework from the radiators, HW cylinder and the bypass has always put a question mark in my head, as it doesn't look right, however, I don't know what a correct layout would look like... What do you think?
Right, I will stop for now, I think there is a mass of information for you to read and a ton of questions, I again thank you for helping me out, I hope this is all interesting for you.
Cheers!
Richard.
Ps, If you ever want to chat on the phone or switch to email, let me know.
Pps, I might struggle with the accent