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Discuss Master Soldering help needed for a clean solder in the Plumbing Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    Re Not a wire brush -on Hot splodges ..

    Have wondered if leather (like moles skin) shammy would have similar effect.

    Not a valid plumbing technique - as moving joint as it cools is a no-no .
    Also likely to splash self and surroundings .
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  2. Stoney Ground

    Stoney Ground GSR

    • Like Like x 1
  3. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    It hasn't been mentioned what flux you are using. The fluxes like greased based Fluxite or similar Yorkshire Traditional flux will let the flux flow very well and work very well if you constantly add a dot of flux to the joint as you heat it. Leaded solder flows better, wipes better and stays melted longer, but any lead isn't recommended to be handled as hazardous.
    As the joints are not going to have to hold water, you just need to tack them together with one dab of solder.
     
  4. Last Plumber

    Last Plumber Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    You could always solder the open fitting inside and clean and flux the tube, then shuv it into the fitting !
    Whilst it's hot of course, you'll need to keep it hot with your lamp.
    Stand the lamp on the bench or floor and use both hands
    Like I said before, it's only to hold it together, not water tight !
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  5. Radioman

    Radioman Active Member

    Why not wipe the joins with a damp cloth whilst still hot? Wear gloves of course. When I was a sprog we used make all sorts of nice bits and bobs from copper in metalwork class at school ( 1962 to 1969). For example I made a big 12 inch diameter planished dish with a ring as the base for my O level project. That was braised on with silver solder and the joint was invisible , that's what jewels do. So why not do that?
     
  6. Radioman

    Radioman Active Member

    Why not wipe the joins with a damp cloth whilst still hot? Wear gloves of course.
    Anyway....When I was a sprog we used make all sorts of nice bits and bobs from copper in metalwork class at school ( 1962 to 1969). For example I made a big 12 inch diameter planished dish with a ring as the base for my O level project. That was braised on with silver solder and the joint was invisible , that's why jewellers use the method. So why not do that? Plenty of info on you tube on how to do it. It's much cleaner and stronger. Borax is the usual flux and silver solder comes in 3 types: easy, medium and hard, videos explain more. Bad joints are caused by ANY contamination of the joint, even a fingerprint will be a drama!

    EDIT

    Got me thinking and reminiscing now! Jee so Christo mr Elf and Safety would have a mare back in the day! Our little old secondary modern taught us 12 year old how to use oxyacetylene welding, lathes, braising, coke blacksmiths forge for wrought iron work. we had a full on gas alloy casting drag and set where we melted scrap alloy and pored molten aluminium into red sand hollow mould's, we used a gas furnace for melting the alloy. All the safety equipment we had was a cotton apron and swarfega hand cleaner!
    Don't get me started on sports kit! I had 2 pairs of plimsoles, 1 Black for winter and 1 white for summer! It's a wonder I am still alive.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  7. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    In a world of industrial espionage , and cheap copies , buy one , saw it up ,
    perform an autopsy !
    Even solder paste exists (For SMD) -- not plumbing safe - but its not plumbing .
     
  8. SimonG

    SimonG Plumber

    Epoxy resin.
     
  9. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    That will kick up an awfull stink if you heat it , attempting to re -work something neat by !
    ( and that other product ? )
     
  10. SimonG

    SimonG Plumber

    For somebody that can't solder then just glue the fittings.
     
  11. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    There are some excellent tips here and will have another go using some of them. One thing that I will definitely look at is the silver solder. That sounds like a very good idea. Will post back with results
     
  12. Shower Engineer

    Shower Engineer Plumber

    If my memory serves me correctly, ordinary solder requires a temperature below about 200 degrees whereas silver soldering is somewhere above 700 degrees.
    Check that as if I am correct then you need to take that into account..
     
  13. Radioman

    Radioman Active Member

    Silver solder in the UK comes in 3 different types , easy medium and hard. This relates to the temp it melts at. This is for when you are constructing a complicated piece that needs different joints soldering close together. In the USA they have 6 grades. Important to use propane gas if you can, but not entirely necessary.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Whn1

    Whn1 Plumber GSR

    • Like Like x 1
  15. Radioman

    Radioman Active Member

  16. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Wasn't sure you were still around, how you doing ?
     
  17. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Im still around Shaun cheers. Yeah I'm doing alright. I've found a few things out as I've gone such as if I make a mess of a join it's because the fitting wasn't hot enough or I'd applied too much flux. Also as the pipe is for decorative reasons, actually filing down blobs and then applying flux to the excess to darken it makes the joins quite appealing.

    Did some archive searching and found this little gem from this forum actually
    http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/39491-neat-soldering-how.html
    And
    http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/43536-making-perfect-end-feed-solder-joint.html

    That link has helped quite a bit as well as this one.

    My next little dilemma now if trying to solder to end feed fittings together and have them flush... any takers on that? I'm using a small piece of copper to try and attach two end feeds together with no gap... very difficult indeed and a waste of copper fittings I've found and a great deal of swearing at the sky. Here's a picture of what I mean

    IMG_0157.jpg

    Any help would be appreciated the image is the wrong way round... changed it on my computer but not happening on upload.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  18. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Solder the elbow or t first

    And then solder the other through either the elbow or t hole
     
  19. 1Steven

    1Steven Plumber GSR

    Post your pictures when you have given it ago!
     
  20. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Or just pull the two end feed fittings apart about a couple of mm, then heat and touch of solder and immediately tap the fittings tight together.
    But Shaun's idea of soldering through other (open) end of fitting would do also as either method fine because it isn't plumbing
     
  21. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Tried the tapping best but couch it would knock some joins out of line and then burnt fingers happen. The idea to solder through the other end though, sounds great and will try that next.
     
  22. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Just one dot of solder will hold the joint forever.
    The tapping the fitting while the solder is melted is easy, but takes experience I guess.
    I take your point that joints can be knocked out of angle.
     
  23. CP1111

    CP1111 Member

    Your passion for this project is inspiring

    Originally I thought you just fancied doing some soldering but the wife wouldn't let you loose on your house
     
  24. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    If you go for more strength in the joint with Silver solder / Brazing rod
    ( expensive -Half-ords ) I only found 4 problems
    a) So hot may melt copper !
    b) Supports need to be super heat resistant (not concrete)
    c) ---The burns are soo... much worst---
    d) Hard work cleaning off

    But the sense of achievment is worth it ,
    (can use solder near by -cos this one won't melt )
     
  25. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    I'm a nutter... once I've got an idea in my head I run out and want to master it. We've just moved house and I'm looking at ways to create small things that are eye catching around the home. For example I created some scaffold board shelves and thought... what would look cool on their is a copper pipe lamp and then I started to think about things I could make from copper pipe around the house. Not made the lamp yet as I need to research electrics and making it safe but I'm currently creating a copper pipe spice rack as we have a ton of spices just in a box.
    I'll post some pictures when I'm done.
     
  26. oz-plumber

    oz-plumber Plumber

    The problem you will find when you use silver solder is that the copper will be annealed and the solder will go a dark colour.

    If you want the polished copper look, you will never be able to achieve that with the temperatures required for silver solder.

    The solder melts at @ 700C and copper anneals at @ 400C.

    Hope this helps
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. tamz

    tamz Guest

    Is this still ongoing

    Tin 1/2" of the end of the pipe, flux the fitting sparingly, shove it together, heat, allow to cool.

    No need to add anymore solder as the solder on the tinned pipe will transfer to the fitting.

    It might not be watertight but it won't come apart.
     
  28. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Ok well after a little trial and error today I had great results from soldering the inside of the fittings.

    I give up with the pictures I've uploaded but they've turned out upside down I'm afraid.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  29. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Ok well after a little trial and error today I had great results from soldering the inside of the fittings.

    IMG_0162.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  30. tamz

    tamz Guest

    Easier soldering the outside of the pipe than the inside of the fitting but the result is the same.
    Well done on getting those jars to hang there. Bet that was harder to do ;)
     
  31. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Thanks. No the jars was the easy bit honestly.

    Better pictures the right way up here:

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxLXOZBjHN-7ZTFvbmpEQW1GdUk

    This is just the first tier. There's going to be three tiers in total.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  32. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    looking good
     
  33. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    Cheers Shaun... would have done it without your obvious insight to solder from the inside.
     
  34. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

  35. Electronurd

    Electronurd Member

    • Like Like x 1
  36. plumbill

    plumbill New Member

    You could use "solder paint" if you can still get it. This was a paste of powdered solder and flux mixed. You apply to the joint and heat with a torch. Might work.
     
  37. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Not wras approved sorry to say
     
  38. plumbill

    plumbill New Member

    Light fittings don't have to be WRAS approved!
     
  39. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    No but anyone looking at this thread thinking of using it on plumbing systems, you didn't say it couldn't be
     
  40. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    You never know , if its being used in a controlled area , Bathroom / Kitchen !
     
  41. plumbill

    plumbill New Member

    Better than glue!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. plumbill

    plumbill New Member

    But then would have to be submitted for testing to IP44 or whatever.
    Seriously, no ones mentioned earth continuity, so adhesive would not be ok unless separate earth conductor is used.
     
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