Need to install new hopper+soil pipe..

[WaterTight]

Need to change a hopper and down-pipe for a customer that are falling to bits. Not done this before but looks pretty straightforward - famous last words.

Checked online sizes and prices. I'm guessing it's soil pipe rather than rainwater downpipe? It's for 3 waste pipes to terminate in as they pass out of the first floor wall. Probably 3 metres up at a guess.

I'm also guessing it's 110mm (as long as that is diameter) since my open hand wrapped round just over half of it's circumference when I touched it. And the hoppers seem to only come in one size I think?


So...

1) Do these sound like the right sort of observations and most likely what I want to install?

2) How does the down pipe connect to the hopper..what do I need to connect it? Something separate? Any sealant or solvent weld/compression anything?

3) He said where it passes under the decking it just goes into the drain..Would I need a connector down there ?

4) Anything else I should know or be wary of?

Muchos gracias..

 

[deadlifter]

Hello mate, you need 2.5" rainwater and the hopper to fit it, also about 3 or 4 brackets and possibly a bend and a shoe or 45`bend for the bottom to terminate into the drain. Nice little number that and easy to do,Enjoy

Oh and some cleaner and solvent weld

 

[WaterTight]

Thanks for the info..

Ah so the pipe solvent welds to the hopper? Also what cleaner do I need and what for?
And so it's definetly 2.5"/68mm pipe I need yeah? From memory I can't quite picture it's size even though I touched it.

 

[Puddle]

As I am posh,I always like to put a lid on my hoppers to stop rubbish falling in,made out a bit of lead

 

[Toddyplumb]

Buy yourself a notebook and tape measure

 

[Bernie2]

Its not that easy.

If you discharge three how wastes into a pvc stack it gets hot and expands. You have to allow for expansion with anchor points and barrel clips and although rwp may do the job, its not as good as 75mm soil.

You also have to know what sort of drain connection you have at the base of the stack and put the right connector, access point and expansion fitting in, if they are required.

And hoppers do come in a variety of sizes.

Have a look at Marleys or Hunters sites.

 

[WaterTight]

Thanks for extra info Bernie.

Looking on bes.co.uk where I buy bits here and there - they only list 82mm and 110mm soil pipe. Do you mean 82mm instead of 75mm? Or, even so, would that still do a better job than a rainwater down-pipe?

Why would soil pipe be better than rainwater pipe?

Did a search for anchor points, plenty of mentions, can't find explanations..Does it mean clipping it in places that would allow for expansion?

Eager to do a proper job.

By barrel clips do you mean this sort...

Or would that not suffice?

Thanks..

 

[tamz]

82 is 3"

Bernie, information overload

 

[deadlifter]

If the three wastes are from the one bathroom, the chances of all being used at once are minimal to extreme.
the cleaner is a degreaser so the glue will take properly

 

[Bernie2]

It may be info overload like Tamz says, but here is a bit more to try and answer your questions.

82mm is about the equivalent of 3" or 75mm in certain makes.

So why soil instead of rain water pipe?

Well 82mm Hunter soil has 3.2mm thick walls and their rwp has 1.80mm - 2.05mm. BS EN 12200 is even thinner.

So basically the walls of the soil pipe are thicker and so probably able to stand up to more thermal shock than RWP.

The next bit about expansion:

A PVC pipe expands and contracts like mad.

So to stop it moving all over the place, they use collar clips around the pipe collar to provide an anchor point.

The other clips are usually known as barrel clips because they fit around the barrel of the pipe. They are intended as guides for the pipe as it expands not for anchor points to control expansion.

If you anchor a pipe at its collar then it can only move downward into the next lower pipes collar.
To stop it forcing down onto the bottom of the lower collar, you pull it back about 15mm or so to allow for expansion. Then you fix the lower collar as an expansion anchor point and so on down the stack. In between collar's you put barrel clips to keep the pipe in line.

In effect you have fixed a piece of pipe between two fixed points and cut it short to allow for it to get longer as it heats up.

But don't forget to use silicon grease on the pipe ends, washing up liquid makes the rubber seal ring bond onto the pipe and after a few weeks you virtually need a lump hammer to knock them apart

If the rubber ring bonds to the pipe or you don’t pull the pipe up from the bottom of the lower collar enough, you loose expansion control, so when the pipe gets hot from the water discharge or the sun, the whole stack can move, ripping out the anchor points. This can also lead to downward pressure on clay drains at the bottom of the stack and easily breaking them or the snapping of branch pipes.

So in his instance I would fix a hopper head (please note, its now unusual to have waste pipes discharging into hopper heads, they where allowed at one time, but now, only I think if you are replacing like for like) And directly underneath it a collar clipped as an anchor point for 82mm, with an expansion gap for the hopper head.

I must admit you might have trouble getting a hopper head with a 82mm spigot; you may have to step it up in size or get a commercial/industrial hopper head. Ask your supplier what they can get.

Then using collar clips and barrel clips fix pipe.

Of course the proper way is to start installing from the bottom of the stack. So depending on what sort of draining system you are connecting too, use the appropriate adaptor and leave an expansion gap making sure you have a good anchor point to stop expansion pressure on the drain.

Then if required, fit an access point with another anchor point.

Then fix the rest of the stack.

The problem today seems to be, that not many people use collar clips and instead put barrel clips on. The result is, you often see soil stacks bent like bananas and out of shape all over the place.

You can work it out for yourself, if you think a barrel clip is a guide and a collar clip is an anchor. Try and work out where the pipe is mostly likely to expand and how you can control it, by getting it to expand into the collars, instead of pushing the pipe out of line.

Also PVC pipe in the sun can become brittle after a few years and will snap like a carrot if it has pressure put on it. I have seen houses where apparent uncontrolled expansion, on I think solvent welded stacks with out expansion joints, have snapped the WC bend going through the wall.

The PVC pipe may be a bit flexible but the fittings are moulded and usually brittle.

I may also say its advised to fix into the brick not the joints and use external screws with slot heads not posi or Phillips, with all the slots vertical so the rain runs out and does not help rust the head.

Good Fortune!!