Sorry.....more Part P/electrical advice required.

[armyash]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking at doing Part P course and 17th edition either end of March or later in the year. I have been on the electrical forum for advice, to be honest it's just confused me more.

Do I need Part P/17th edition to doing electrical work that is required in plumbing?

If not what exactly do I need? Ideally someone reading this does the sparky side of things on their own jobs and can tell me exactly what qualifications they have.


I have been told I also need to register with a scheme provider to be able to sign off/cert my own work, If anyone can elaborate on this or just give me a dummies guide it would be appreciated.

How about testing and inspections certificate?

The thing is I don't want to waste money on qualifications unless they are absolutely neccessary!

Sorry if this post seems a little vague or i'm waffling i'm just being told different things by different people.



As wirepuller says

To self certify you will need to register with a scheme provider who normally ask for Part p, 17th Edition and a testing and inspections cert. Check with anyone of them (NICEIC, NAPIT ........etc) as to what qualifications they require

Another way is, if the work has to be notified to Building Control then tell before the job starts and pay the fee for them to inspect and register your work.

Or find a friendly spark


(the above was a post from someone on the sparky forum)

 

[quality]

A part p course would allow you to register with an approved body like napit or elecsa
if you have no previous electrical experience in domestic installations I would advise to wait a while until you get to know what you need because what ever a part p course covers it will not show or learn you what you are likely to find in mrs jones airing cupboard.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

get out of here ......here is a no electrician land ha ha ha

 

[PowerFlusher2]

A part p course would allow you to register with an approved body like napit or elecsa
if you have no previous electrical experience in domestic installations I would advise to wait a while until you get to know what you need because what ever a part p course covers it will not show or learn you what you are likely to find in mrs jones airing cupboard.

Got a Part P and 17th Edition qualification just over a year ago. Makes you 'qualified' to DESIGN and INSTALL domestic electrics. Nothing on either course gives you anything to do with fault finding and repairing electrical appliances!

 

[armyash]

Got a Part P and 17th Edition qualification just over a year ago. Makes you 'qualified' to DESIGN and INSTALL domestic electrics. Nothing on either course gives you anything to do with fault finding and repairing electrical appliances!

So once you have Part P and 17th edition you are qualified to do the wiring for boiler/shower etc? I wouldn't be interested in fixing the electrical side of things just strictly doing the installs.

 

[PowerFlusher2]

I'm NOT a GS engineer and would only wire up to the point of putting in a socket or fused spur for the provision of power to the appliance, without any problem, and it would be within my remit to certify the installed cabling/socketing to that point.

I don't believe I can 'legally' connect the cable from the appliance to my installed cabling/socketing because I have no way of checking the end result - that the boiler set up is correct for commissioning. I would need to be GSR for that.

I would leave the connection of the appliance to the fused spur entirely to the GS installer who has to certify it.

PS - I could install a shower or a fixed electric fire because there are no other regs (that I am aware of) which require these appliances to be certified by somebody with other qualifications?

 

[armyash]

So if you was GSR having Part P and 17th edition you would be qualified to complete a boiler install and sign off? Is there any other courses/qualifications required?

 

[PowerFlusher2]

So if you was GSR having Part P and 17th edition you would be qualified to complete a boiler install and sign off? Is there any other courses/qualifications required?

As I understand it yes, but you would have to be fully paid up and registered with one of the electrical equivalents of the GSR because you would be doing the electricals for payment and can therefore only sign off if you are properly accredited.

I reiterate, 'as I understand it'. Before committing yourself to any course of action you really need to obtain qualified advice on the various requirements.

 

[armyash]

Ok i'll look in to the accreditation schemes, will call them tomorrow and get it from the horses mouth. Thanks for your replies.

 

[dancinplumba]

I'm NOT a GS engineer and would only wire up to the point of putting in a socket or fused spur for the provision of power to the appliance, without any problem, and it would be within my remit to certify the installed cabling/socketing to that point.

I don't believe I can 'legally' connect the cable from the appliance to my installed cabling/socketing because I have no way of checking the end result - that the boiler set up is correct for commissioning. I would need to be GSR for that.

I would leave the connection of the appliance to the fused spur entirely to the GS installer who has to certify it.

PS - I could install a shower or a fixed electric fire because there are no other regs (that I am aware of) which require these appliances to be certified by somebody with other qualifications?

why not ?
i expect my sparks to do so and he's not gsr.

 

[PowerFlusher2]

Exactly my point. He's 'your' sparks and you sign off the boiler. Anybody can physically connect the appliance to the socket/spur but only a GSR can sign off the appliance as Gas Safe.

 

[mountainman]

At the risk of being controversial, but WTH.
I have been a qualified spark and a qualified gas engineer for over. 30 years.
IMHO, domestic electrics are a doddle compared to the potential risks of a gas installation.
MM

 

[dancinplumba]

Exactly my point. He's 'your' sparks and you sign off the boiler. Anybody can physically connect the appliance to the socket/spur but only a GSR can sign off the appliance as Gas Safe.

disagree there, its the sparks job, he has to test to the boiler
imho

 

[PowerFlusher2]

I assume that when you say 'your' sparks you are talking about an electrician who is employed by your good self and therefore does what he does under cover of your Gas Safe Registration - a perfectly normal situation - but am I not right in saying that even in those circumstances it is you, not he, who actually signs the appliance off as gas safe?

Any qualified 'sparks' (or any DIYer for that matter) can, of course, connect up any cables to anything - but if he is NOT GSR nor employed by a GSR he cannot legally test any appliance which uses gas. Just had a look online and its a GBP5,000.00p fine for somebody not qualified and registered to do that.

 

[mountainman]

How can a non-gsr spark turn on a boiler?
If he did and there was an incident, who exactly would end up in the dock??

 

[PowerFlusher2]

Is that 4 me or 'dancinplumba'?

 

[dancinplumba]

How can a non-gsr spark turn on a boiler?
If he did and there was an incident, who exactly would end up in the dock??

he doesnt need to tun it on all hehas to do is test to connections in boiler

 

[dancinplumba]

I assume that when you say 'your' sparks you are talking about an electrician who is employed by your good self and therefore does what he does under cover of your Gas Safe Registration - a perfectly normal situation - but am I not right in saying that even in those circumstances it is you, not he, who actually signs the appliance off as gas safe?

Any qualified 'sparks' (or any DIYer for that matter) can, of course, connect up any cables to anything - but if he is NOT GSR nor employed by a GSR he cannot legally test any appliance which uses gas. Just had a look online and its a GBP5,000.00p fine for somebody not qualified and registered to do that.

no employed by customer,

 

[dancinplumba]

I assume that when you say 'your' sparks you are talking about an electrician who is employed by your good self and therefore does what he does under cover of your Gas Safe Registration - a perfectly normal situation - but am I not right in saying that even in those circumstances it is you, not he, who actually signs the appliance off as gas safe?

Any qualified 'sparks' (or any DIYer for that matter) can, of course, connect up any cables to anything - but if he is NOT GSR nor employed by a GSR he cannot legally test any appliance which uses gas. Just had a look online and its a GBP5,000.00p fine for somebody not qualified and registered to do that.

he doesnt, he's not gsr

 

[PowerFlusher2]

disagree there, its the sparks job, he has to test to the boiler
imho

so we do agree, then?

(now going to pour myself a large one before I go to bed)

 

[dancinplumba]

so we do agree, then?

(now going to pour myself a large one before I go to bed)

only if you agree to connect my boiler up lol ?
enjoy

 

[armyash]

I think i'm even more confused now! lol

 

[dancinplumba]

I think i'm even more confused now! lol

its a sparks or part 'p' registererd persons responsibility to provide a safe electrical supply to boiler, not just to fused spur, and to any 230v controls and to certify it, by certification and sometimes by notification
imho

 

[REDSAW]

same as you ash,
talking to the boss this aft' thinking where to invest the next £1m....
i have 2 years electrical installation on my c.v. and i am thinking of getting a cert for it for prosperity.lol.

if i can;;;;
can i change an electric shower of the same output?.
can i wire up my boilers to a spur pulled of a socket?.
can i wire a y plan?.
can i change repair and rewire an element?.

if the answer is yes to above without the need of electric certs.........i will spend me money on l.p.g instead.

 

[dancinplumba]

doesnt take much
can you ?

 

[AWheating]

can i change an electric shower of the same output?.
i think any work carried out in a bathroom needs an electrical cert, even if your just swapping like for like.
can i wire up my boilers to a spur pulled of a socket?.
you can wire a boiler to an exsisting fuse spur. If you are altering the fixed wiring then it will require a new electrical cert.
can i wire a y plan?.
This will require a electricla cert.
can i change repair and rewire an element?.
Yes, aslong as your not altering the exsisting fixed wiring circuit.


from what i can remember from the regs (been a while) you can change like for like (socket for a socket) without any problems. If you need to alter the fixed wiring of any circuit then you will need to test and cert. If you need to add a new circuit you need to test and cert. Any work in bathrooms and kitchens needs to be be tested and certed.

 

[dancinplumba]

can i change an electric shower of the same output?.
i think any work carried out in a bathroom needs an electrical cert, even if your just swapping like for like.
can i wire up my boilers to a spur pulled of a socket?.
you can wire a boiler to an exsisting fuse spur. If you are altering the fixed wiring then it will require a new electrical cert.
can i wire a y plan?.
This will require a electricla cert.
can i change repair and rewire an element?.
Yes, aslong as your not altering the exsisting fixed wiring circuit.


from what i can remember from the regs (been a while) you can change like for like (socket for a socket) without any problems. If you need to alter the fixed wiring of any circuit then you will need to test and cert. If you need to add a new circuit you need to test and cert. Any work in bathrooms and kitchens needs to be be tested and certed.

agree, they are 'special locations' therefore if connecting boiler in kitchen to fused spur then its notifiable and you need a cert to comply with part 'p'
any work outside 'specail locations' needs minor works' certificate
imo

 

[armyash]

argh! think i'll get the rest of the plumbing qualifications that i have been advised to do. Will get electrical side of things in the future when I know exactly what's what.

More plumbing for me this weekend, loving it!