What trade should get paid more ?

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Discuss What trade should get paid more ? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

J

JTplumbingservices

Gas Engineer
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234
Just been having a debate with my company owner about wages after finding out the joiner I work alongside earned more than me.
I have my Advanced plumber ticket and gas.
We carry various trades and have a big kitchen and bathroom renewal contract so our joiners are usually doing the kitchens.
He says he pays him more as they are more valuable to him than a plumber as it’s much harder to get a good joiner than a plumber.
I.M.O a joiner wage should be similar to a plumber wage, a plumber with gas should earn more..
Thoughts ???
 
Wow , Just sums up how **** this job can be .
I can feel a rant coming on but have only called home for a buttie .
All of us who do gas should be payed a absolute minimum of £150 an hour , we fec up and prison beckons
 
If you feel your worth more. Then hand your notice in. Tricky game on both sides, if he needs you, and you are good , he will pay.
If your not! Then he won’t.
Other than that, go self employed. Everyone should at some point.
 
Chalked said:
If you feel your worth more. Then hand your notice in. Tricky game on both sides, if he needs you, and you are good , he will pay.
If your not! Then he won’t.
Other than that, go self employed. Everyone should at some point.
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He said he needs me but I could be replaced a lot easier than a joiner.. I don’t get why he values someone who fits a kitchen so highly but he does, anyway he gave me more money so that will keep me quiet for now
 
My cousin is a tiler and got offered a job 36 k a year on the books plus van that is more than the gas jobs here.
Some paint and dec jobs here are 28 k a year on the cards.

Problem here is that gas and plumbing is swamped so wages are down mid to low trade. Think most are 24 k to 32 k firm dependant and experience
 
Look how much Wicks or B&Q charge to fit a kitchen! I fitted a kitchen before and doing the worktops was a ball ache. Joiners need millions of tools also don’t forget!

Painting don’t seem like a bad trade, fresh new walls...slap it on, in and out ;)
 
Jim09876 said:
Look how much Wicks or B&Q charge to fit a kitchen! I fitted a kitchen before and doing the worktops was a ball ache. Joiners need millions of tools also don’t forget!

Painting don’t seem like a bad trade, fresh new walls...slap it on, in and out ;)
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Fitting a worktop is prettt simple for any half decent joiner.. they might have more expensive tools, wee need tools too plus have to pay for gas then reassessments every 5 years. A joiner could buy every tool he needs to fit a kitchen for the price of a good CPA analyser.
 
Think a big issue is that gas engineers have large outlays too. Public liability&indemnity insurance is expensive in comparison to someone who doesn't do wet/hot works (electrician insurances is approx an 1/8th of the cost of gas engineers for same level of cover if using niceic recommended firm).

Cost of fga's, calibration costs every year. Gas safe registration, acs test every 5 years, ongoing training costs as technology changes.

Joinery is generally using same techniques that have been used for decades, though sometimes using a tool that speeds up and makes the process easier.

Insurance is cheaper, no qualifications/registrations required.

Public are blind to costs though when it comes to visual appearance work (e.g. Fancy new kitchen) than compared to replacing a boiler that has been limping and banging along for the last 20+years.

Ive been to hundreds of houses where they wanted smart thermostat fitted and have remote control lighting etc... .but the boiler they had was over 20 years old and had a very expensive kitchen just fitted around it o_O

Unless shiny pipes and Boilers become fashionable for the general public then it's gonna remain difficult with pay. The saying from customers I hear the most is "if its broken, don't fix it" .... Most often from visits where they have called in for a breakdown in the first place... And normally as they've just replaced the 3 year old car they had with a brand new one :rolleyes:

Rant worthy subject if there ever was one :p
 
Similar situation to me mate. My company paid for my gas. Signed a 3 year contract, 1 year to go in April.

The fact that your boss paid for your gas is no reason to not pay you accordingly, but just because you have your gas quals, doesn't entitle you to more money either.

It depends on the type of company you work for and what profit your bringing the firm compared to the joiner your comparing your wages too.

To be honest I've just had a similar argument with my boss regarding wages and to be fair, he has listened, given me a new role, more money, and a review in 6 months to see if I warrant another rise. The threat of me going self employed seemed to work :D
 
Craig Watson said:
Similar situation to me mate. My company paid for my gas. Signed a 3 year contract, 1 year to go in April.

The fact that your boss paid for your gas is no reason to not pay you accordingly, but just because you have your gas quals, doesn't entitle you to more money either.

It depends on the type of company you work for and what profit your bringing the firm compared to the joiner your comparing your wages too.

To be honest I've just had a similar argument with my boss regarding wages and to be fair, he has listened, given me a new role, more money, and a review in 6 months to see if I warrant another rise. The threat of me going self employed seemed to work :D
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We’re doing probably 3 kitchens a week on average all of which have to be fully repiped and the existing gas cooker pipe moved or one put in if there isn’t one, and each of these jobs gets a full new bathroom suite and repipe so he defo needs plumbers, but his argument is he can replace a plumber much easier than a joiner somehow so they get a “premium”. I asked for a raise and he said he couldn’t match what I asked for but offered me just above the half way mark between what I was on and what I wanted, I txt him again today though saying actually I want more and he replied saying ok and he will see me next week :p
 
Stick to your guns mate. Keep pushing until he says no. He may say to you I can replace you easily, it doesn't mean he believes it. Every boss in the world will have an excuse why he can't give someone a pay rise. I take it you are on the books? Out of curiosity, where are you based and what is he paying you compared to what you want, and what are the joiners on? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
 
Craig Watson said:
Stick to your guns mate. Keep pushing until he says no. He may say to you I can replace you easily, it doesn't mean he believes it. Every boss in the world will have an excuse why he can't give someone a pay rise. I take it you are on the books? Out of curiosity, where are you based and what is he paying you compared to what you want, and what are the joiners on? Obviously you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
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Aye on the books in Scotland.
What I told him I wanted equated to £37.50 a week clear.
He offered me £20 so an extra £80 a month then I txt him today saying I want £100 a month so only £5 more a week than what he offered and it looks like he’s agreed to it.
Don’t know exactly what the joiner is on but I know it’s there or there abouts to what I’ll be on now.
The wages aren’t the best but it’s only 37.5hrs and get a van with diesel paid.
 
Don't want to sound harsh but if I was on the cards, only working 37.5 hours a week, being paid for holidays & bank holidays, getting sick pay and pension benefits, had my gas paid for, was getting transport and fuel and had just negotiated another £1200 a year pay rise I wouldn't be too bothered about how much the joiner was getting paid!!.
If you think your hard done by try going self employed, buy/lease a van, pay for your own insurances and fuel, pay for your own gas/G3/water regs and other training/qualifications, sort your own tax (and vat), only get statutory sick pay if your ill, don't earn anything if you take a holiday, find your own work, spend your weekends and evenings preparing quotes, source your own materials, negotiate with merchants/suppliers, buy all your own tools and just hope the work keeps coming and you can make a profit, or at least break even!.
Hope this makes you feel a little happier !:)
 
Tim S said:
Don't want to sound harsh but if I was on the cards, only working 37.5 hours a week, being paid for holidays & bank holidays, getting sick pay and pension benefits, had my gas paid for, was getting transport and fuel and had just negotiated another £1200 a year pay rise I wouldn't be too bothered about how much the joiner was getting paid!!.
If you think your hard done by try going self employed, buy/lease a van, pay for your own insurances and fuel, pay for your own gas/G3/water regs and other training/qualifications, sort your own tax (and vat), only get statutory sick pay if your ill, don't earn anything if you take a holiday, find your own work, spend your weekends and evenings preparing quotes, source your own materials, negotiate with merchants/suppliers, buy all your own tools and just hope the work keeps coming and you can make a profit, or at least break even!.
Hope this makes you feel a little happier !:)
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Sounds like you should go back on the books mate
 
You lost me with doing 3 kitchens and every job gets a new bathroom. Also think I can see the point about the good joiner being harder to replace tbh.
 
Thing to look at is if there main work is kitchens etc a decent kitchen fitter is worth their weight in gold.

If you look at customers (especially round me) they would think nothing of spending 15k on a kitchen but would pass out if you want to charge them £60 for a boiler service and if you want to charge them 2k for a boiler swap they look at you like you just took a dump on their carpet and rubbed it in with their rampant rabbit.

I'm not saying it's right it is unfortunately supply and demand and like it or not decent plumbers are easier to find than decent kitchen fitters. were not talking carpenters now as I could get you a dozen carpenters and maybe 1 would do a job worth 10+k
 
Also if your good at your job chances are you will get someone who will buy you out of your contract and then you sign up again for them or if possible pay for it yourself and be free.
 
Millsy 82 said:
Thing to look at is if there main work is kitchens etc a decent kitchen fitter is worth their weight in gold.

If you look at customers (especially round me) they would think nothing of spending 15k on a kitchen but would pass out if you want to charge them £60 for a boiler service and if you want to charge them 2k for a boiler swap they look at you like you just took a dump on their carpet and rubbed it in with their rampant rabbit.

I'm not saying it's right it is unfortunately supply and demand and like it or not decent plumbers are easier to find than decent kitchen fitters. were not talking carpenters now as I could get you a dozen carpenters and maybe 1 would do a job worth 10+k
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Having a new boiler on the wall doesnt give bragging rights to friends or neighbours.New kitchens , bathrooms cars etc do. Personally think that the boiler industry is falling on its feet . Muppets doing them for a grand , manufacturers long warranties and endless finance. Give me 5 ball valves to change in a day and would earn same money here .
 
hammers4spanner said:
... Give me 5 ball valves to change in a day and would earn same money here ...
Click to expand...

I've been saying this for years.

What few trades people consider is that for a job over a certain size/price customers mostly get quotes. This means there is always some form of race to the bottom to keep 'winning'.

With smaller jobs, customers simply cannot f8nd anyone who can be ar5ed to turn up so they simply pay up when they find someone willing. It also means the more willing plumber becomes 'my' plumber.

In general, you DEF earn more per hour doing small jobs than big ones. £180 to 300 per hour is best Ive earned for tap jobs.
 
I'm with you both on that. I may not make 180-300 per hour but I can easily clear what I am able to charge for a days work in a morning. Leaves plenty of time for surfing.

It also gets you the bigger jobs as you said you become my plumber so as long as your not hitting with a massive bill for an install they will use you.

I also find you get less idiot customers as well for some reason.
 
Couple of points:

This guys boss is making money out of him.

So anyone self employed, who is not charging at least the rates they would charge if they sent an employee to do the works, should have a major rethink about their charge out rates.
This guy is getting paid with all the benefits + van and diesel.
Do you think his boss is giving that away for free?

Secondly: Big jobs v small jobs
Everything is beneficial and profitable if priced correctly.
Larger jobs need more allowances for everything. Labour & materials.

Start pricing jobs like you have employees doing the work for you. Start realising that you have to make profits on top of what you pay your employees including all the add ons, holidays, sick days and so on.

If you work for yourself and only charge what you would make as an employee, you may as well be empolyed by someone who is going to make money out of you
 
oz-plumber said:
Couple of points:

This guys boss is making money out of him.

So anyone self employed, who is not charging at least the rates they would charge if they sent an employee to do the works, should have a major rethink about their charge out rates.
This guy is getting paid with all the benefits + van and diesel.
Do you think his boss is giving that away for free?

Secondly: Big jobs v small jobs
Everything is beneficial and profitable if priced correctly.
Larger jobs need more allowances for everything. Labour & materials.

Start pricing jobs like you have employees doing the work for you. Start realising that you have to make profits on top of what you pay your employees including all the add ons, holidays, sick days and so on.

If you work for yourself and only charge what you would make as an employee, you may as well be empolyed by someone who is going to make money out of you
Click to expand...

You are right the problem is a lot of plumbers are like myself you can ask me to pipe a boiler, move a rad, do a bathroom, service a boiler or do repairs and I'm like yes not a problem.

Now ask me how to run a business, to work out how much my van costs to run each month etc etc and we're not taught that so it is a learning experience. I know my first year my price changed about 6-7 times until I worked out what worked and I made enough. So a lot of plumbers see that they are earning £160 a day from an install and think that's what they are getting however it turns out they are realistically earning £100 a day and better off on the books.
 
At the end of the day your boss employs you to make himself profit.

It's pretty daft of him to actually tell you he can replace you etc. but it doesn't seem unreasonable that he expects to recoup the costs of putting you through your training. If it's cost him say £12K to train you he you need to cost him £4000/year less than an already qualified technician to break even or he may as well just have employed the experienced guy from day 1.

It also comes down to the type of work your undertaking, you have to cost him less than subbing the work out to a third party. If your installing kitchens, most of the pipework will be hidden and the gas work very basic. He can probably buy this in quite cheaply from a third party.

The way to make yourself more money is to make more money for him. Make yourself indispensable, see if you can being in extra work from existing customers on site etc, show him you can do the carpentry side of work too. Offer to train in other disciplines too.

Make his life easy and make him cash and he will try and look after you.
 

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