Advice on heating in a new build property

[slacky]

Hey guys

looking for abit of advice on my heating system in a house I’ve just moved into. Last week I had to bleed a few radiators which I thought was normal but today I’ve had to go round bleeding them again and there was quite abit of air in them. How often should they need to be bleed? The down stairs toilet needed bleeding first time round but now it’s stone cold but doesnt need bleeding. What could be wrong with this? Also a few radiators are hot to touch but if I put my hand over the top it doesn’t feel like much heats coming off them and lastly for a new build property it’s costing anything from £4-6a day for gas and the heatings only on a few hours a day but doesn’t seem to reach temperature. For a new build property it seems abit excessive my old house was built In 1960ish and didn’t cost this much to run.

any help would be appreciated

thanks

 

[townfanjon]

Sorry this sounds like a typical new build , probably only teething problems but get yourself around the site office , assuming they are still there.

 

[slacky]

They do have after care but I was hoping it’ll be things I could sort out myself. I’ve done a 2 page snag list that Im still waiting for them to start. The heatings been on for 2 hours and the temperatures gone up from 16 to 18 degrees. Not sure if I’m expecting to much but I used to live in a relatively new house 7 years ago I’m sure I used to walk round in shorts it was that hot this time of year

 

[king of pipes]

Any pictures of the install ? do you have weather compensation fitted to the system ? Probably just needs a few tweaks here and there get the installers back its their responsibility to get it working properly. Kop

 

[slacky]

It’s a ideal logic heat 15 with a tribune xe tank. It’s got 2 zones for heating a stat on the 2nd floor for 1st and 2nd then a stat on the ground floor for just the ground floor. As far as im aware it hasn’t got any weather compensation

 

[Stu-B]

It is rather cold at the moment, plus your house is a brand new build I’d guess it’s been empty without the heating on for a bit too, you need to let the fabric of the house warm up, you know like walls floors kitchen units etc, then the house will start to feel warm. Is the temp dial on the front of the boiler at 65degrees and the rads getting piping hot to touch?
As for bleeding, the system will have been thrown in by a subby on a price, probably over worked and the install price as low as the builder can get away with, it’ll take a while to settle and all the air to work it’s way to the top of the system, keep bleeding the rads but don’t forget to top up the pressure, you’ll find the filing loop and gauge in the cylinder cupboard. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Scott_D]

Have you checked the system pressure?
Is the hot water cylinder on the top floor?

 

[Brambles]

Slacky,

From the information that you have given, it would indicate that the boiler is working very hard, but not achieving the set room temperatures.

First, check that your meter readings and cost calculation is correct - take readings direct from the meter at the same time each day. Don’t rely on the information from a portable Smart Meter device.

If your calculation of £4 to £6 of gas / day is correct (which I would doubt):

As an order of magnitude, assuming an average gas cost of 3.5p /KW, £4/day represents your boiler (12kw) on 80% load for 12 hours. That would possibly be caused either by too low a flow temperature set at the boiler or a boiler that is significantly undersized for the system it is powering. However, you are not saying that the boiler is on continuously - which it would need to be tconsume that volume of gas.

With your handover pack there should be a Bench Mark Certificate completed and signed by the installer. If the Builder/Developer is slow to respond contact the installer direct. Most installers are very responsive to address issues on systems that they have signed off. If you don’t have a Benchmark Certificate demand one - you will need it for the boiler warranty.

Under the Central Heating section, The Benchmark certificate will show you the boiler flow temperature - measure it at the hottest pipe leaving the boiler and see if it matches the recorded reading. It should be around 70 degrees with a return temperature below 55 degrees.

The issues with air and system pressure have been covered by other posters. However, with the system you have described - when set up correctly, you should get all radiators hot to the touch whilst the house gets up to temperature. If you don’t it (the heating system ) needs to be recommissioned and balanced.

Finally, talk to your new neighbours and see what issues they are experiencing with their heating system (if any).

If the builder and installer remain unresponsive, put them on notice that if they don’t address the issue properly, you will engage a third party and back charge them.

Hope the above helps.

 

[slacky]

I’ll be ringing the site Foreman in the Morning to see if anything can be sorted. I just either wanted to sort the little problems out myself rather than have the inconvenience of waiting in for half the day and for them to try fob my partner off because they want to get back to their price work or have an idea of what’s wrong so I know what they should be looking at. I’ve been in the house for 2 weeks now and the heatings was on constant for 2-4 weeks before I moved in not sure how longs things take to heat up. I’ve also noticed the stat downstairs doesn’t go above 18 degreees and I get a low heating warning on the stat because it’s took longer than 2 hours to get to 20 degrees
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Sorry for the double post I didn’t refresh the page before I typed my reply 🙈 I’ve got a commission certificate at home I’ll get it out when I get back. The boilers on highest temperature setting I’ve already checked that. I did too the pressure up to 1.5 bar after I bleed the radiators yesterday. Most of the radiators are piping hot to touch but doesn’t seem much coming out the top of them

 

[Brambles]

The downstairs thermostat sounds like it is a Danfos TP One which has been set by the builder with Temperature Limitation at 18 degrees C, whilst the property dries out. That is common practice by some Developers.

Having said that, it does not explain the symptoms you described in your earlier post - but the information on your Benchmark Certificate will indicate exactly how the boiler has been set up / configured.

If your rads are all piping hot and you are not achieving 20 degrees C - that is starting to point to a system that is undersized

 

[slacky]

Just checked the boiler and it’s set to 80 degreees is this to high?
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Just checked the benchmark it says central heating flow rate 80 degrees and return rate 65 degreees.
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Just checked the stat on the ground floor under installer settings temperature limitations and it’s 5 degreees to 35 degrees is that the section you mean ?

 

[king of pipes]

Yes thats a bit high a modern new build property should not require the boiler to be set that high, i would still contact the developers and get their installers to check the operation of heating and its controls . Kop

 

[slacky]

There’s a e on the dial I presume that means efficiency? I’ve turned it onto the e to see if that helps which takes it down to 65 degrees

 

[Scott_D]

Is there a TRV on the radiator in the room with the room thermostat

 

[garygvl]

e is the eco setting to keep the return temp at optimum so boiler stays in condensing mode as much as possible
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can see this turning into another pointless warranty call to ideal as more than likely site will say its under warranty get the manufacturers out

 

[Brambles]

If you have a flow temperature of 80 degrees and the rads are all getting hot, then that is the best you are going to get for heat in your property as currently installed and insulated. It us unlikely that there is anything wrong with the boiler.

If you want the boiler to operate more efficiently as a condensing boiler the flow temp needs to be reduced to give a return temp of less than 55 degrees C.

The temperature restriction on the Danfos TP1 can be removed by the parameters on menu 3 or 4 on installer settings

 

[slacky]

There isn’t a trv on the radiator on the ground floor in the hallway where the ground floor stat is but in the top bedroom where the second stat is there’s trvs on both radiators but no trv just outside the room on the landing outside

I just know when the plumber comes round he’ll just try fob us off with the usual crap. I’ve had them round a couple of times for leaks and you can tell they don’t want to be here

 

[garygvl]

when you turn off all your programmers, hot water and both heating stats, does the display on the boiler go to 00

 

[king of pipes]

There’s a e on the dial I presume that means efficiency? I’ve turned it onto the e to see if that helps which takes it down to 65 degrees

Just for the record how many rads do you have ?

 

[garygvl]

There isn’t a trv on the radiator on the ground floor in the hallway where the ground floor stat is but in the top bedroom where the second stat is there’s trvs on both radiators but no trv just outside the room on the landing outside

I just know when the plumber comes round he’ll just try fob us off with the usual crap. I’ve had them round a couple of times for leaks and you can tell they don’t want to be here

shouldn't be trvs on both rads in bedroom where second stat is

 

[slacky]

Yes the boiler goes to 00 and there’s 16 radiators in the whole house. I’ve been round and added up all the kw for the size and type of radiators and it comes to 8.7kw so we’ll in the boiler capacity
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Sorry my mistake on both radiators on the top floor where the stat is there isn’t any trvs on them

 

[Scott_D]

Have you checked the heating system pressure?

 

[king of pipes]

Hmmmm i would say your boiler is undersized 16 rads and a Tribune cylinder is alot for a 15kw ideal i was expecting around 8- 10 rads max

 

[garygvl]

Hmmmm i would say your boiler is undersized 16 rads and a Tribune cylinder is alot for a 15kw ideal i was expecting around 8- 10 rads max

Yes the boiler goes to 00 and there’s 16 radiators in the whole house. I’ve been round and added up all the kw for the size and type of radiators and it comes to 8.7kw so we’ll in the boiler capacity
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Sorry my mistake on both radiators on the top floor where the stat is there isn’t any trvs on them

are you on 3 floors with boiler on ground floor and cylinder on top floor

 

[slacky]

are you on 3 floors with boiler on ground floor and cylinder on top floor

Yes the cylinder on the top floor just outside the bedroom

 

[garygvl]

Yes the cylinder on the top floor just outside the bedroom

tbh 15k on new builds is fine with level of insulation running 15 rads see it all the time. I know you shouldn't have to do this but if you go round all the rads make sure the lockshield valves are fully open. turn off the HW then turn both heating stats on and make sure pump is on max setting then turn all the rads off except one, run this rad for a minute or so so you know all the air in the pipwork has been cleared, go to next rad turn this one on then go back to previous and turn it off to clear next rad pipework of air. repeat this step one rad at a time till you have been round all the rads. turn system off and vent all rads and check system pressure. open all rads to max setting and run boiler with HW and both heating zones on and see if all rads get hot. if not its a balancing issue which site should sort out. had this so many times where boiler on ground floor being pumped up to top floor then back down to ground floor rads on microbore. pump setting can be sorted after you know all rads are balanced

 

[slacky]

Plumber came round earlier to look at the heating played with a couple of lockshields got the rads warm and then went as I suspected he would. The heating was on from 12 when he turned up and by half 4 it had gone from 15 degreees to 19 degrees so 4 degrees in 4 and a half hours. At 2pm she turned the upstairs stat off because the 2 smaller bedrooms wasn’t even warming up even with the doors closed. And all this has cost £3.50

 

[slacky]

Just wanted to give you guys a quick update. I’ve spoke to the site Forman and he’s getting the company that does all the insulation out to get there isn’t anything cold spots etc as the plumbers keep saying the radiators are hot it’s working fine. I’ve started writing down the times, temperatures and cost every hour of the day. I just wanted to ask if I’ve got theos the right with the boiler usage. Am I right in thinking if all my radiators add up to 8.5kw and the gas kwh is 4.23p then if the boilers running at 8.5kw it’ll be using 35p per hour?

 

[Brambles]

No, you need to convert from gross to net. So at 4.23p /kwhr that equates to £0.40/hr. (multiply your calculation by 1.11).

Having said that, it is unusual ( in my experience) for a gas boiler to operate at full capacity for a prolonged period unless it is heating a swimming pool or the outside temp is consistently below -2 degrees C . This winter has, to date, been unusually warm - my gas bill for heat and water (in Oxon) is minimal ( £2.90 /day) for a 27kw system.

In the current market you should be paying around 2.7p per Kw (inc vat) for gas - Utility Point are around 2.45p per Kw. Gas prices are falling quite rapidly at the moment so be wary of locking into a fixed price deal

 

[Stu-B]

It doesn’t work that way, the gas consumption is based on your boiler KW rating, so yours is 15kw when on max setting, or thereabouts.

 

[slacky]

Is there a way to know how much kw the boiler is running at when heating the rads?

 

[Brambles]

Yes, measure the gas rate at the meter, them convert it to KW. That will give you a snap shot in time of what the boiler has modulated to. Not sure how that would help you though.

Very unlikely, in my view, that there is anything significantly wrong with the performance of your boiler.

You would be better off spending your time looking at heat loss calculations to determine the correct sizing of the radiators and insulation of the property.

 

[Kernowplumboy]

Is there a way to know how much kw the boiler is running at when heating the rads?

Are your room stats calling the right way . Ie downstairs stat turns on downstairs upstairs for upstairs ?

 

[centralheatking]

Yes the boiler goes to 00 and there’s 16 radiators in the whole house. I’ve been round and added up all the kw for the size and type of radiators and it comes to 8.7kw so we’ll in the boiler capacity
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Sorry my mistake on both radiators on the top floor where the stat is there isn’t any trvs on them

16 Rads total 8.7 kw are you heating a dolls house. centralheatking

 

[slacky]

All radiators apart from 2 are k1’s and the other 2 are k2’s I’ve been round all of them and took the measurements then got the kw per radiator from the stelrads website which adds up to 8.7kw

 

[centralheatking]

All radiators apart from 2 are k1’s and the other 2 are k2’s I’ve been round all of them and took the measurements then got the kw per radiator from the stelrads website which adds up to 8.7kw

I have installed loads of heating systems since 1980 until a few years ago but because of my business in plumbing and heating keep up or even ahead. Do not be fooled its a case of emporers clothes the system looks good maybe just meets modern regs etc. in reality my last gaff had 30kw over 3 floors and 14 or so rads and guess what I could turn it down ! wait till we get a real cold blast. get some more kw in or buy some electric convection heaters when they are cheap after Easter. centralheatking

 

[king of pipes]

Sorry Slacky but as CH KING has said you havent got enough kw . Kop

 

[slacky]

Do you mean the rads aren’t big enough for room sizes ? If I’m honest I did do a couple of btu calculations on a web site with a couple of rooms sizes and it did say they was big enough not by a lot though

 

[king of pipes]

You cannot raise the tempreture in the property to a comfortable level even after hours of running the system the boilers to small in my opinion, the rads may well be just about adequate but only if you can get enough heat into them which you are struggling to achieve . Kop
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Isolate 50% of the radiators and see if you can get the downstairs up to temperature. ?

 

[gmartine]

Just what I was going to say, on a cold day turn off/down one of your zones and see if the remaining zone gets up to temp then do then do the opposite and see if the other zone gets up to temp. If both zones get up to temp individually but not together you have your answer, I'd also check when your cylinder is calling for heat.

 

[slacky]

hey guys

6 weeks later and im still in the same situation. Had the insulation people out to check all insulation which is ok. Ive worked out the maximum gas the boiler can run on my current gas rate is 71p per hour. Over the last week or so ive been writing down every hour how much gas has been used. It ranges from 40-70p every hour even when the house is upto temperature. Even though the stats turn off it doesnt take long before their kicking back in again. During the heating times the boiler doesnt really get a break.

Ive emailed ideal technical explaining the situation hoping they might shed some light on the possible causes. I think one of the causes could be the size of the rads in the hallway and both landings. Am i right in thinking when measuring the hallway you measure the stairs as if they wasnt there ? The hallway is 5m long and 1m wide with an external front door according to the stelrad website should need a btu of 2568. Then the stair space measures 1.8m by 1m with 1 external wall and again on the stelrad website it says it needs a btu of 925 which together equals 3493. The rad in there is a stelrad k1 600 x 500 which gives out 1575 btu. This is the same on the first and second landing

Ive measured the bedrooms and the size of the rads in there they seem right but only just they seem to have put bare minumum in there

Any help would be appreciated

 

[centralheatking]

hey guys

6 weeks later and im still in the same situation. Had the insulation people out to check all insulation which is ok. Ive worked out the maximum gas the boiler can run on my current gas rate is 71p per hour. Over the last week or so ive been writing down every hour how much gas has been used. It ranges from 40-70p every hour even when the house is upto temperature. Even though the stats turn off it doesnt take long before their kicking back in again. During the heating times the boiler doesnt really get a break.

Ive emailed ideal technical explaining the situation hoping they might shed some light on the possible causes. I think one of the causes could be the size of the rads in the hallway and both landings. Am i right in thinking when measuring the hallway you measure the stairs as if they wasnt there ? The hallway is 5m long and 1m wide with an external front door according to the stelrad website should need a btu of 2568. Then the stair space measures 1.8m by 1m with 1 external wall and again on the stelrad website it says it needs a btu of 925 which together equals 3493. The rad in there is a stelrad k1 600 x 500 which gives out 1575 btu. This is the same on the first and second landing

Ive measured the bedrooms and the size of the rads in there they seem right but only just they seem to have put bare minumum in there

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks for keeping us informed, this might be the right time for you to re summarise your position as not everbody will have time to read it all from the beginning . My take on your problem is this
1. New build 2. Bare minimum heating system which does not reach your quite reasonable expectations 3 Total kw rad output 8kw. 4 boiler rarely modulates just races on to keep up
Question ..what is the boiler and it’s output in Kw Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

Thanks for keeping us informed, this might be the right time for you to re summarise your position as not everbody will have time to read it all from the beginning . My take on your problem is this
1. New build 2. Bare minimum heating system which does not reach your quite reasonable expectations 3 Total kw rad output 8kw. 4 boiler rarely modulates just races on to keep up
Question ..what is the boiler and it’s output in Kw Centralheatking

Thanks for the reply

The boiler is an ideal logic heat 15kw

ive been asking the plumbing company for the spec of rads boiler etc thats been requested from the builders but they ignored me and also asked the builders which he said hes laptops playing up which is a coincidence but hes ment to be coming round next week to go through it with me. Where do i stand with them putting bare minimum in which clearly isnt working?

ive also noticed pipes knockng in places when there cooling down. Whats the cause of this?

 

[Scott_D]

have your neighbours got the same setup and issues?

 

[slacky]

i havent asked them directly but i checked their meter every day same time for a week to see what they was using (naughty i know) they was using roughly £1.80-2 on the rate im on. Although there house is a 2 storey one and mines slightly bigger i cant see me using twice as much as them. Theres still 5 people living there all seem to be home at different times during the day and when i get home from work between 4-5 theres steam coming from their flu so heating must be on

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Insulation might be OK but have you not considered draughts? Draughts will cause your house to cool down much quicker than no insulation.... Poorly fitted doors/windows, seals not fitting correctly, loft hatches not sealing, extractor fan back draughts not working etc.

 

[centralheatking]

Thanks for the reply

The boiler is an ideal logic heat 15kw

ive been asking the plumbing company for the spec of rads boiler etc thats been requested from the builders but they ignored me and also asked the builders which he said hes laptops playing up which is a coincidence but hes ment to be coming round next week to go through it with me. Where do i stand with them putting bare minimum in which clearly isnt working?

ive also noticed pipes knockng in places when there cooling down. Whats the cause of this?

15kw is a joke for your property 2x that in my opinion Chking

 

[slacky]

the house was air tested for draughts etc not sure if this means anything? when the heatings off the house takes a while to cool down say its 22 degrees when the heating turns off itll only go down a degree or so over the next 1-2 hours. from experience from previous houses when the stats reach temperature they keep raising to a degree or so higher as the rads keep giving abit of heat out but this doesnt seem to happen in this house itll get to 21-21.5 degrees then turn off thinking itll keep rising but it doesnt casuing it to come back on a few minutes later

how would you determine what size boiler is required?

 

[Scott_D]

Do you have an unvented cylinder?
Do you time the hot water in times?
Do you use lots of hot water?

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

the house was air tested for draughts etc not sure if this means anything? when the heatings off the house takes a while to cool down say its 22 degrees when the heating turns off itll only go down a degree or so over the next 1-2 hours. from experience from previous houses when the stats reach temperature they keep raising to a degree or so higher as the rads keep giving abit of heat out but this doesnt seem to happen in this house itll get to 21-21.5 degrees then turn off thinking itll keep rising but it doesnt casuing it to come back on a few minutes later

how would you determine what size boiler is required?

Your stats will come on and off as they’ll be TPI stats. They’ll work out how quickly a room cools down then come back on before the temperature decreases to maintain the room at that temp.
As Scottd says have you got the HW on at the same time? Ensure that is timed to come on outside the heating is on.

 

[slacky]

Do you have an unvented cylinder?
Do you time the hot water in times?
Do you use lots of hot water?

not sure if its unveneted or not. no the hot waters on constant as this was the advice from the plumber who came to fix a leak. he said its best to have it that way then you only heat up what you use rather than the whole tank. I wouldnt say we use loads of hot water. I have a shower every night. Misses has a bath probably 3 nights a week then shower the other nights and kids a bath every other night

 

[Scott_D]

Try timing the hot water for a week.
check the stat is at 60.
Check you don’t have water Dripping at the tundish.

 

[slacky]

Try timing the hot water for a week.
check the stat is at 60.
Check you don’t have water Dripping at the tundish.

just checked the stat and its slightly higher than the pre set point i think some one told me to change this in the past. What times would you recommend having the hot water on so it doesnt interfere with the heating? we generally use 90% of hot water between 6-9. The heatings set to come on 5:30-7:30 in the morning and 4:30-9 at night.

i checked the tundish and its seems dry

 

[Scott_D]

Is the boiler temp higher than the cylinder stat temp?

 

[slacky]

The boilers set at 80
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Can any one recommend a btu calculator they trust and is accurate? I’ve been on the Stelrad and Plumbnation calculators but both give very different results

 

[centralheatking]

The boilers set at 80
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Can any one recommend a btu calculator they trust and is accurate? I’ve been on the Stelrad and Plumbnation calculators but both give very different results

BES list the Mears Calculator which we always used. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

Just had a look at the mears calculator it looks quite complicated. I’ve wrote down all the measurements of the rooms from the floor plan of the house along with all the rads and btu outputs per room I just need a reliable calculator to work out what btu is needed

 

[centralheatking]

Just had a look at the mears calculator it looks quite complicated. I’ve wrote down all the measurements of the rooms from the floor plan of the house along with all the rads and btu outputs per room I just need a reliable calculator to work out what btu is needed

You will need to include outside walls, ceiling heights, windows and type as well. That’s why a mears calculator is the bees knees. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

 

[Scott_D]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

Do your radiator outputs get close to the lower figure?

 

[centralheatking]

I’ve put all that in on both Stelrad and plumbnation calculators but get very different results

I have just put new heating system into one of my let’s so I know it’s adequate so did the sitting room on both the calculators you mention. The Plumbnation one is rubbish way too low, the stelrad is nearer the mark . I can use btu or kw but kw is easier to understand as it translates into 1 bar electric fires as a comparison. The stelrad one came up with 2.2kw I put in 3kw as I can always turn it down, always put in enough heat for very cold xmas day when the kids are up early and running around in pyjamas. That gaff has 3 bedrooms two bathrooms two reception ..kick space in kitchen rarely used.8 rads and 24 kw combi is just dandy. House comes up to heat real fast boiler rarely run above half unless it’s real cold. Centralheatking

 

[slacky]

just redone each room on the stelrad website which gave a few different results and then done the same on plumbnation but they havent got as many room types so just did what i could. Could you cast your eyes over it see if there about right before i show the builders

 

[Scott_D]

I have just put new heating system into one of my let’s so I know it’s adequate so did the sitting room on both the calculators you mention. The Plumbnation one is rubbish way too low, the stelrad is nearer the mark . I can use btu or kw but kw is easier to understand as it translates into 1 bar electric fires as a comparison. The stelrad one came up with 2.2kw I put in 3kw as I can always turn it down, always put in enough heat for very cold xmas day when the kids are up early and running around in pyjamas. That gaff has 3 bedrooms two bathrooms two reception ..kick space in kitchen rarely used.8 rads and 24 kw combi is just dandy. House comes up to heat real fast boiler rarely run above half unless it’s real cold. Centralheatking

2 bathrooms and a 24kw combi ?????

 

[centralheatking]

2 bathrooms and a 24kw combi ?????

One is just a bog and basin. Lecky shower as well. Deck mixer on the bath

 

[Scott_D]

One is just a bog and basin

Typical landlord job then

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Mr combi one isnt far off a mears Calc and the one I use for mine

but don’t be surprised as it’s a new build they’ve just shoved a heat pack in x amount of rads and no heatloss calcs done hence them not wanting to talk / send you there’s

bring your boiler temp down to around 65dc

 

[slacky]

Just downloaded the mr combi app (think that’s the right one) put in a few rooms I think I’ve done it right and the figures are coming back higher than both Stelrad and plumbnation results

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Just downloaded the mr combi app (think that’s the right one) put in a few rooms I think I’ve done it right and the figures are coming back higher than both Stelrad and plumbnation results

thats the ones I would work off then

now find the manufacturer of your rads and look up the outputs

 

[slacky]

Ive done that already if you look at the spreadsheet picture I posted a few posts up it’s all on there. Mr combi app doesn’t list all the rooms that the Stelrad one does so not sure when choosing kitchen/dinner, wc, ensuites and landing areas

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ive done that already if you look at the spreadsheet picture I posted a few posts up it’s all on there. Mr combi app doesn’t list all the rooms that the Stelrad one does so not sure when choosing kitchen/dinner, wc, ensuites and landing areas

so which one your struggling on ?

 

[slacky]

Downstairs wc, kitchen/diner, both ensuites and 1st and 2nd landing areas. The Stelrad didn’t have an option for ensuites but it covered everything else

 

[king of pipes]

Slacky this post has gone on for quite somtime now and i think the conclusion is your boiler and rads are undersized the only way to improve your situation is get a decent engineer in to upsize some of the radiators this may help but you may also find the boiler may also need looking at , it should not happen in a new build property but in reality it often does as the developers squeeze the heating contractor on price , you will carry on going round in circles getting nowhere and before you know it another 6 weeks will have gone by sit down write a list of things your not happy about and address each point . Regards kop

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Downstairs wc, kitchen/diner, both ensuites and 1st and 2nd landing areas. The Stelrad didn’t have an option for ensuites but it covered everything else

bathroom for wc
Kitchen / diner both are in the mr combi app
Landing use entrance / halls

 

[slacky]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
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I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
[automerge]1581884275[/automerge]
I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

correct total outside wall length and correct

 

[slacky]

And flow and return I’ve put 80 65?

 

[centralheatking]

I know it’s gone on far to long that’s why I’m trying to get right size btu for each room so I’ve got abit of evidence that what they’ve installed isn’t good enough. There’s a lot of contrasting information on the internet regarding the btu needed for different rooms that’s why I’ve asked here as you guy do it day in day out I thought you would be the best people to advise. I don’t see why I should be paying anything to get the rads upgraded or boiler looked at when I’m paying a lot of money for the house
[automerge]1581884275[/automerge]
I take it when it asked for external wall I put the lengths of both walls added together? And ensuites as bathrooms?

Let us know how you get on with your builder when you present an expert report by a qualified heating engineer. Centralheatking

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And flow and return I’ve put 80 65?

doesn’t really matter but for condensing 65max then 50 for return

 

[slacky]

Let us know how you get on with your builder when you present an expert report by a qualified heating engineer. Centralheatking

no problem i get the hint i wont ask for any advice any more

doesn’t really matter but for condensing 65max then 50 for return

just did all the rooms using mr combi app again very different results compared to both stelrad and plumbnation. Thanks for the help

 

[king of pipes]

I totally agree with you but if the developers wont sort the issue out and you are getting fobbed off what are you going to do ? Post some pictures of rads fitted often its a simple job to swap a single panel rad for a double panel or double panel plus surley its worth considering in the rooms which are inhabited the most if it solves the issue you can the chase the developer for the costs . Regards kop

 

[naylorpd]

I've browsed this because I also have a newbuild house in the UK and am underwhelmed by the heating system and the quality of work in the installation.

One problem I had is that the downstairs thermostat is in the hall which is quite a small, enclosed space, but the kitchen is large and has a flat roof. So the hall comes up to temp, the thermostat switches off and the kitchen is still freezing. I then put in a Hive system and the thermostat is now removable from the wall, so I put it in the kitchen. This also meant that I then needed a TRV on the rad in the hall. But I still have one rad that consistently refuses to come on and know the problem is not the TRV.

One very specific tip I would give - the developer has probably given you a two year warranty on the house including appliances, before the NHBC clicks in. Here is the BUT...the heating system including boiler, hot water tank etc. needs an annual service by a heating engineer approved by the manufacturer. If you do not do this service, the developer will wriggle out of the warranty on the whole system in the second year.

Secondly I'd back up other comments, don't try to fix everything yourself, the developer has given a warranty and must fulfil that. Do not be afraid to call them back again and again, especially (but not only) if they are still on site, because at the end of 2 years they will walk away. Then you really will have to sort it out yourself. Of course the big problem is that the developer has subbed everything out, including the warranty repairs.

 

[MattyR]

Have you checked the system pressure?

 

[Frelon]

Some background info that may help!

I bought a new build five years ago with an Ideal Logic HEAT 15 system boiler installed (3 bed semi). Ours was one of the last built on the development (Charles Church) and we found the builders/plumbers were cutting costs on the later builds by not installing immersion heaters (the leccies had put the wiring in) and using single panel radiators instead of the nice double panel radiators that were in the show house (the builders said that they were out of stock and had an 8 week backlog!). I have subsequently changed the two radiators in the sitting room to double panels.

I control heating and hot water using a Nest thermostat, my water heating is on for two hours per day (07:30 - 08:30, 17:00 - 18:00) and that gives us plenty of hot water.

I have the boiler serviced annually by the local company that installed the system.........and am pleased to report that the Logic HEAT 15 has been fault free, the only replacement needed was a Zilmet expansion vessel after water was seen coming out of the tundish.

Being a new build insulation is superb, windows are plastic double glazed, no draughts anywhere! In fact Mrs Frelon is very happy with our heat control and is even able to change the temperature using Nest on her iPhone!

Good luck to the OP, sounds as though the Plumbers Forum team are pointing you in the right direction.

 

[naylorpd]

@Frelon Interesting that heating installers were allowed to cut corners, because I thought that Charles Church was at the top end of property developers.

 

[slacky]

Thanks for the reply’s guys. I’ve lived in a new build before although a few years ago now and the heating in there was bang on.

I emailed ideal over the weekend and explained the situation to see if they could give some possible causes of the gas usage. They was insistent on sending one of their engineers out to check the boiler over. He came today checked the boiler and all is working fine. He had a look on the cyclinder cupboard and noticed the hot water valve is stuck open. Could this be the problem ?

ive reported it to the plumbers but they want to send an engineer out to check for themselves

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Thanks for the reply’s guys. I’ve lived in a new build before although a few years ago now and the heating in there was bang on.

I emailed ideal over the weekend and explained the situation to see if they could give some possible causes of the gas usage. They was insistent on sending one of their engineers out to check the boiler over. He came today checked the boiler and all is working fine. He had a look on the cyclinder cupboard and noticed the hot water valve is stuck open. Could this be the problem ?

ive reported it to the plumbers but they want to send an engineer out to check for themselves

Yeah as it'll be sailing round the HW, basically acting as a big bypass. And considering your HW cylinder coil will be 15kw it'll be using the majority of the heat put in by the boiler and putting little into the heating. Had the same on a system today, i've rewired it so it'll do HW Priority - although that wouldn't get away from a stuck valve but enables the system to reheat the cylinder quickly and then put 100% heat input into the heating circuits once that's done.

 

[slacky]

Is there any way close the valve manually? The plumbers aren’t coming out till Thursday and then if it is faulty itll be another week or 2 till the parts arrive

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

What make of valve is it? (picture might help) I'm surprised your HW isn't scalding if it's stuck open!

 

[slacky]

It’s a Honeywell 272848. I’ve just ran the hot tap to see how hot it gets and it’s piping hot. Just shows how much I run the hot tap apart from having a shower 🙈

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It’s a Honeywell 272848. I’ve just ran the hot tap to see how hot it gets and it’s piping hot. Just shows how much I run the hot tap apart from having a shower 🙈

Without taking the lid off the top there's probably not a lot you can do, depends if you are handy with a screwdriver or not! Make sure you isolate all the power if you do decide to.

Funnily enough i've been having a few issues with Honeywell valves sticking over the past 12 months, makes me wonder if they've had a faulty batch....

 

[ShaunCorbs]

is the lever free or in here

 

[slacky]

I’m an electrician by trade but have limited experience with heating systems normally just do commercial work

here’s a picture

 

[ShaunCorbs]

no not locked open when you push the lever (part thats sticking up) is it easy or can you feel resistance

 

[slacky]

Can feel abit of resistance if I push it over to
Manual it’s moves itself back to auto

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Can feel abit of resistance if I push it over to
Manual it’s moves itself back to auto

It ain't stuck open then....

 

[slacky]

Dam I take it it’s working as it should then? The boiler bloke said the outgoing from the valve to the boiler is piping hot but it shouldn’t be as it’s not heating the water

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Dam I take it it’s working as it should then? The boiler bloke said the outgoing from the valve to the boiler is piping hot but it shouldn’t be as it’s not heating the water

Could be wired up incorrectly? Is valve opening when it shouldn't be i.e. when heating is on and water is off.

 

[slacky]

Is there any way to tell if it’s opening other than sitting next to it listening ? I’ve turned the hot water off going to see if it runs out over the next day or so if it does then the valves got to be working right

it’s got to be wired up right when we first moved in we had the hot water on for a couple of hours in the morning on some nights we used to run out of hot water

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Feel below the port valve should be cold / the same temp as your hot water

 

[slacky]

I’ve left the hot water turned off for a day or so and I’ve ran out of hot water. Felt the pipe work just under the valve and it’s cold but I noticed when I’ve got the heating on and hot water set to be on constant the pipe work was very hot to touch. Not sure if the valves constantly open when the hot water is set to on. Should it close when the cylinder stat says it’s upto to temp?

ive bite the bullet and purchasd some k2s for the hallway, first floor landing and both bedrooms that are quite cold. I’m going to balance the system to make sure it’s all heating up at the same time. What’s the best digital thermometer to do this?