Overflow running when heating or hot water on

[Grahamrae]

Hi all, I have a customer with open vented system,cold feed from f&e tank is teed into flow just above cylinder coil where in enters attic as expansion/vent which terminates through roof
The tank overflows whenever heating or hot water is on and stops as soon as boiler/pump goes off,so it’s definitely filling tank through feed pipe
A new boiler,3 port valve have recently been fitted but this ongoing problem is still occurring
I thought coil maybe had pinhole but surely this would cause overflow to continually run as water tried to self level against cwst for cylinder
I’m at a loss how it’s happening only when boiler and pump on wether heating or hot water on
Any pointers or advice greatly appreciated

 

[RSD]

"No it’s overflowing through the overflow pipe" post #13 and not the vent?.

Ah! I misread the Post - maybe too much water in the Header Tank initially, as expansion is only about 4% of total system volume. The standing water level should only be just above the outlet - no more than about 3 - 4".
Ball valve may be faulty etc?

 

[John.g]

Its very mysterious because he also said that the overflow stopped as soon as the circ pump stopped.

 

[RSD]

Its very mysterious because he also said that the overflow stopped as soon as the circ pump stopped.

Water level could be too high and just below the overflow? Consequently, when pumping level rises and goes out of overflow - when pump stops, the excess water has escaped down the overflow, and the level has dropped just below it.
He needs to tell us how much water is in the Header Tank.

 

[John.g]

You have a point there, but my logic is that with the pump off there is no overflow so the ballcock isn't making up, pump on you get constant overflow but as the level has to be fractionally higher in order to overflow then the ballcock certainly can't/shouldn't be making up so where is the makeup coming from?, but I agree C&F tank levels should be checked cold/hot and go from there.

 

[RSD]

You have a point there, but my logic is that with the pump off there is no overflow so the ballcock isn't making up, pump on you get constant overflow but as the level has to be fractionally higher in order to overflow then the ballcock certainly can't/shouldn't be making up so where is the makeup coming from?, but I agree C&F tank levels should be checked cold/hot and go from there.

The 'make up' is coming from the expanded heated water, which rises up the cold water feed - hence Feed & Expansion.

 

[John.g]

It can't just keep overflowing each time the pump comes on or due to the expanded volume without external make up after the first overflow.

 

[SJB060685]

The thermal expansion coefficient of water changes with temperature. Water in heating systems typically expands around 1.5% when heated to say 70°c, not 4 %. Having said that something here doesn't quite add up.

 

[RSD]

It can't just keep overflowing each time the pump comes on or due to the expanded volume without external make up after the first overflow.

Then either the initial level is far too high, or the ball valve isn't shutting off fully.
The system volume expands by about 4 per cent when heated, so a system containing 100 litres would expand by 4 litres in volume.

 

[SJB060685]

The system volume expands at different percentages at different temperatures. For it to expand roughly 4% you would be heating the system water to close to 90-95°c. Most systems will expand around 1.5-2% when heated between 60-70°c and even less in low temperature systems which are becoming ever more frequent.
Looking at the OP initial diagram again it is possible the resistance of the HW and CH circuits are greater than through the boiler and combined cold feed and vent, which will cause the water to take the path of least resistance and back up said pipe. Of course an excessively high cold fill line would aid in the problem. If it was a faulty ballvalve I'd expect it to overflow regardless of whether or not CH or HW were on.