Leak on lead

[32alan]

Hi, got a small leak approx 2" above ground on my supply pipe which is lead. Unable to turn water off from outside as stopcock, has had it, waiting on water board to fix this. So until then need a fix for the leak. At the moment have got rubber silicone tape folded over on itself a few times and a Jubilee Clip around pipe which is hand tightened with a key type thing on the end of the screw (Didn't want to use a normal clip just in case it distorted the pipe), this has slowed leak, but not stopped it. Can anyone please advice what I could do until the water can be turned off? Have also tried two part putty but this just wont stick, probably as its getting wet? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks

 

[dai the plumber]

Are you saying that the Water supply companies stopcock is faulty which should be just outside your boundary?

 

[Dotty]

Alan< is your leak inside or out? have you told the waterboard about this?

I know you've told them about their valve out in the toby.

 

[tamz]

Sharpen a small piece of wood and knock it into the leak. Then using a cross pein hammer dress a bit lead over the wood. That will last for a while until you get it sorted.

 

[Essex Fitters]

Sharpen a small piece of wood and knock it into the leak. Then using a cross pein hammer dress a bit lead over the wood. That will last for a while until you get it sorted.

Sounds like abit of skill going on there.

I was called to a house the other week and they had a similar problem. They brought some putty like substance and you have to kneed it like bread. then stick it to the pipe. My word, for a temp repair it was brilliant. They brought it from B&Q and iv kept a bit on board, sticks to leaking pipes... may be the way forward when dealing with lead / black mains pipe as this is not normal stock for the van.

 

[Essex Fitters]

Sharpen a small piece of wood and knock it into the leak. Then using a cross pein hammer dress a bit lead over the wood. That will last for a while until you get it sorted.

Sounds like abit of skill going on there.

I was called to a house the other week and they had a similar problem. They brought some putty like substance and you have to kneed it like bread. then stick it to the pipe. My word, for a temp repair it was brilliant. They brought it from B&Q and iv kept a bit on board, sticks to leaking pipes... may be the way forward when dealing with lead / black mains pipe as this is not normal stock for the van.

 

[tamz]

It would be one of those epoxy repair kits. You need to keep the pressure off until it sets (few minutes usually).

 

[Essex Fitters]

I managed to do it ok, what i done was this.

there is a plastic tube that the stuff comes in, cut that in half and cut the end off. Kneeded the putty and put that on the inside of the tube.
Then pushed that to the pipe and put two jubilee clips either side.

The pressure was reduced but again faulty stock cocks would not allow me to turn the water off completely

You may want to turn off the out side stopcock as much as you can and run all the taps in the house, flush all the toilets and so on.... Worth a try

 

[tamz]

A lot easier and guaranteed to fix it with a hammer and bit wood. Well it is for me😉 🙂

 

[Essex Fitters]

A lot easier and guaranteed to fix it with a hammer and bit wood. Well it is for me😉 🙂

I will most certainly carry that idea and may'be one day i might just need that method!

Thanks tamz 🙂

 

[tamz]

Usually only a small splinter of wood needed. About the thickness of a sharpened match😉

 

[Essex Fitters]

Tried and tested Tamz?

 

[Guest123]

If it's only a small hole in the pipe, put a matchstick in it, the wood will swell up with the water and form a temporary seal. Last time I did the fix live on the mains, by cutting the pipe and hammering a Philmac with a stopcock joined to it onto the lead pipe. Or try a clout nail with some Sticks like Sh*t slapped on it to make a seal and hold it there. Wind a lot of denso tape over this too! A Philmac is the permanent solution even if it means getting wet fitting it. Whatever you decide to do, it won't look pretty, but as it's only a temporary seal until the water board get there, then that won't matter much.

 

[tamz]

Tried and tested Tamz?

Many times

Last time I did the fix live on the mains, by cutting the pipe and hammering a Philmac with a stopcock joined to it onto the lead pipe.

That too😀

 

[Essex Fitters]

I dont have much lead work so not upto date on the methods, but thats all gone on board guys. thanks 🙂

 

[stevetheplumber]

you can tap a leaking main with a hammer to stop it but theres skill involved your actually moving the surrounding lead into the leak area i could dress the end of a piece of half inch lead closed enough to hold mains preasure ,the push fit cap of its day .

 

[tamz]

i could dress the end of a piece of half inch lead closed enough to hold mains preasure ,the push fit cap of its day .

With a bit candle wax for the sweat😉

 

[Guest123]

It's a shame that they don't teach lead pipe repairs in college these days. I still remember doing a ball joint back in the good old days! In the real world outside of the classroom, there's still a lot of old pipe work out there. I had a guy that shook his head in bewilderment at an old drifted type fitting. What the f**k am a supposed to do with that, I think was what he said! Me still got a drift, tee, hee!

 

[tamz]

He could have started it off with the tang of his footprints and used the cone out the old fitting and been gentle with it🙂
Funnily enough i still have a pair of drifts at the bottom of my box along with a swedger. Just can't see my way to taking them out as you never know when you will need them.😱Been a while since i used the swedger tho. (kingleys)

 

[Guest123]

Still got a swedger too! Funny enough, it's got so much rust on it as its not been used in years. And I've got 3 original bars of grade D solder just in case I ever need to do a solder wiping/ball joint. Amazing the amount of crap we plumbers accumulate in our tool boxes! LOL

 

[32alan]

WOW! so many replies, thank guys. 🙂

The leak is in the house, both the stopcock in the house and out are faulty, so wait for water board to replace outside one. Have tried the putty, this just wont stick as it wet, I think? 😕 Not sure if I am confident enouth with the splinter of wood, might try it, however in a really awkward spot, under the sink, inside/behind the cupboard, about 50mm from corner, with no room to swing a hammer. Leak is approx 2" off ground. Will have to get the Dremel out when time comes to cut it.

Just out of interest, once the water board sorts out the stopcock outside, what sort of cost would I be looking at to get this done: cut pipe, add Leadloc or similar, approx a foot or so of 15mm copper on other end to existing compression joint, to include a new stopcock?

Thanks again for your help on this.

 

[Guest123]

If the lead pipe is coming in from outside, i.e the outside stopcock/toby then ask the waterboard if they will renew it into the property. Lead is considered a health hazard these days, so use the health and safety argument if they refuse. Worth a try.

 

[stevetheplumber]

blimey tamz id forgotten about kingly tool till you mentioned it maybe you can tell me what the name of the tank cutters we used to use on galvinised tanks was the ones that had stilson splinters sticking out
i keep thinking of jones cutters but they were for cast iron

 

[32alan]

If the lead pipe is coming in from outside, i.e the outside stopcock/toby then ask the waterboard if they will renew it into the property. Lead is considered a health hazard these days, so use the health and safety argument if they refuse. Worth a try.

Did a bit of reading up about this, and don't think I would get much out of them apart from a small grant towards the replacement. Would mean digging up the drive, pulling up tiles in the hall way and kitchen, although if I were to do it myself would only dig up the drive and run the pipe under the floor, as I don't mind tight space and getting dirty, which they wouldn't do. I know its a health hazard, but would think that majority of 1930s houses would still be lead up to the stopcock and some of the people living in these houses are well into there 90s. Its only a small leak and I don't have the thousands to replace it, but when the drive needs doing will defo do it.

Thanks for your advice.

Had another look at the leak, and can't really see any split or hole, just that the water seems to be seeping out of the pipe at a certain point, so wouldn't know where to insert the splinter of wood? Will have to get some super strong glasses - eyes are deteriorating every dam day.

 

[turnpin]

blimey tamz id forgotten about kingly tool till you mentioned it maybe you can tell me what the name of the tank cutters we used to use on galvinised tanks was the ones that had stilson splinters sticking out
i keep thinking of jones cutters but they were for cast iron

I think you mean cooks cutters.🙂regards turnpin

 

[tamz]

blimey tamz id forgotten about kingly tool till you mentioned it maybe you can tell me what the name of the tank cutters we used to use on galvinised tanks was the ones that had stilson splinters sticking out
i keep thinking of jones cutters but they were for cast iron

I used this type of thing on galvy tanks
www.toolbank.com | 202B Bit Stock Tank Cutter 4.1/2in

or a cone cutter if i had electric.

 

[Dannypipe]

I love all this old Skool talk about tools that I haven't heard of let alone used!

Proper plumbers you lot, none of this plastic nonsense! 🙂

Bit of lead son, good for ya!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i'm with you danny. i am very interested in old plumbing techniques and tools.

 

[tamz]

Bit of lead son, good for ya!

Just keep drinking the milk😉

 

[Guest123]

I used this type of thing on galvy tanks
www.toolbank.com | 202B Bit Stock Tank Cutter 4.1/2in

or a cone cutter if i had electric.

Jeeze, I'm feeling old now. Back in those days when we didn't have the new fangled electric lights and running water. In fact we had the best looking cave in the whole tribe.

 

[32alan]

When I eventually get the waterboard around to sort the outside stopcock. What wise wisdom can anyone give me when time comes to repair. i.e. best way to cut lead pipe and what is the best connection for lead to copper, I see there is LeadLoc and now PhilMac Universal, which one is preference? Any other advice, please share, thanks.

 

[Guest123]

The best way to cut lead pipe is with a hacksaw. A grinder or even a Dremel will leave lots of burrs inside the pipe which is time consuming to remove. Removing these mechanically may also alter the internal diameter of the pipe making a weak connection.

My preference for a connection has always been a Philmac. They're rock solid, easy to fit and I've never had one leak. Old school when I was serving my time was a ball joint using solder, but thankfully that's not commonly used now!
Assemble your new stopcock onto the length of copper you want to join on to and pre-fit this to the Philmac before fitting the Philmac to the lead. It's a very easy and straight forward job.

 

[32alan]

The best way to cut lead pipe is with a hacksaw. A grinder or even a Dremel will leave lots of burrs inside the pipe which is time consuming to remove. Removing these mechanically may also alter the internal diameter of the pipe making a weak connection.

My preference for a connection has always been a Philmac. They're rock solid, easy to fit and I've never had one leak. Old school when I was serving my time was a ball joint using solder, but thankfully that's not commonly used now!
Assemble your new stopcock onto the length of copper you want to join on to and pre-fit this to the Philmac before fitting the Philmac to the lead. It's a very easy and straight forward job.

Excellent bit of advice, thanks very much for that. You are right about the dremel, cut some copper in a very tight spot a few weeks back, then spent the rest of the day cleaning up burrs 😡

How do you size up the fitting of the Philmac, or are they pretty standard and most merchants will carry them?

 

[Guest123]

Most merchants carry them and they're pretty well standard. If in doubt when the time comes, cut off a small piece of the lead pipe and take it with you to the merchants.

 

[32alan]

Thanks for your help.