OP http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/46849-lets-treat-new-posters-some-respect-4.html
I would have liked to have had the right of reply to this thinly disguised personal attack thread in the open forum before it was closed but it seems I am limited to the arms, which is a bit of a shame as there is are a number of important points that I feel should be on the public forum. It would also be nice for the lynch mob that may not be members to hear another side.
Firstly I don’t think I ever abused any one on here, at least not intentionally, I express a personal view as seen from my perspective within the industry I love & have worked hard to master since I was 16.
I have no time for little clique of people on here who through their lack of understanding of what makes a good trades person or how best to train them, persist with the view that the apprentice system is no longer needed, young people are all crap & don’t want to work & all newcomers are welcome to have a go at becoming a plumber. All that is required are some pieces of paper & the rest you can learn on the job by making mistakes at the customer’s expense.
Of course people can come to the trade later & I don’t want to stop that. They worked really hard to succeed, I know, I have trained some very good ones who now send a continual stream of apprentices to be trained through to Level 3, they recognize that college training & knowledge are only effective if they are acquired in the context of working on plumbing systems at the same time.
I don’t see why a (ex-) service man (or any other mature person) should be given anything special over a young person trying to start a life & career in these very difficult times (we all started off that way didn’t we lame?). We all come with a story, how things could or should be better in our lives & on an individual level I have sympathy with all but what makes one more deserving than the other? I would argue the youngster deserves at least one chance at a job over some one who already has one! (If it came to a straight choice between the two).
In a lot of these cases we have people who are easily parted with a little time &/or a lot of money, believing that this is all that is required to master plumbing, well I find that quite insulting. What they are saying to the young & old engineers like me is that you have wasted your time mate; this is all you needed to do. The fact that some simple research into their newly chosen dream would have confirmed what is truly required & the pitfalls, seems to have passed them by e.g. OP-“Firstly I do not wish or want to hear that you need to have experience and so on..” These people tend to only want to hear what they want to hear I guess!
Who, in the long run, is doing them the favour, someone encouraging them on into going self-employed, where they are alone, in an already flooded market place, with thousands chasing work at rock bottom prices, with the chance that maybe just maybe they might get lucky? Tamz suggest 1 in 10 fall by the wayside in a recent post don’t normally disagree with him but this time I bet it is considerably more.
Members opinions are their own & everyone has the right to express them in open forum, (so long as the rules are not broken) however when this comes in the form of a thread that is a personal attack I think this over steps the mark. You know little about me & my motivations for teaching, any time you want to come up & see this side of my work you are more than welcome, you will see just what level 3 plumbers on the 6189 are expected to know & just how hard they have to work to achieve it, this I am sure will broaden your horizons into plumbing rather then just being a domestic installer.
CW
I would have liked to have had the right of reply to this thinly disguised personal attack thread in the open forum before it was closed but it seems I am limited to the arms, which is a bit of a shame as there is are a number of important points that I feel should be on the public forum. It would also be nice for the lynch mob that may not be members to hear another side.
Firstly I don’t think I ever abused any one on here, at least not intentionally, I express a personal view as seen from my perspective within the industry I love & have worked hard to master since I was 16.
I have no time for little clique of people on here who through their lack of understanding of what makes a good trades person or how best to train them, persist with the view that the apprentice system is no longer needed, young people are all crap & don’t want to work & all newcomers are welcome to have a go at becoming a plumber. All that is required are some pieces of paper & the rest you can learn on the job by making mistakes at the customer’s expense.
Of course people can come to the trade later & I don’t want to stop that. They worked really hard to succeed, I know, I have trained some very good ones who now send a continual stream of apprentices to be trained through to Level 3, they recognize that college training & knowledge are only effective if they are acquired in the context of working on plumbing systems at the same time.
I don’t see why a (ex-) service man (or any other mature person) should be given anything special over a young person trying to start a life & career in these very difficult times (we all started off that way didn’t we lame?). We all come with a story, how things could or should be better in our lives & on an individual level I have sympathy with all but what makes one more deserving than the other? I would argue the youngster deserves at least one chance at a job over some one who already has one! (If it came to a straight choice between the two).
In a lot of these cases we have people who are easily parted with a little time &/or a lot of money, believing that this is all that is required to master plumbing, well I find that quite insulting. What they are saying to the young & old engineers like me is that you have wasted your time mate; this is all you needed to do. The fact that some simple research into their newly chosen dream would have confirmed what is truly required & the pitfalls, seems to have passed them by e.g. OP-“Firstly I do not wish or want to hear that you need to have experience and so on..” These people tend to only want to hear what they want to hear I guess!
Who, in the long run, is doing them the favour, someone encouraging them on into going self-employed, where they are alone, in an already flooded market place, with thousands chasing work at rock bottom prices, with the chance that maybe just maybe they might get lucky? Tamz suggest 1 in 10 fall by the wayside in a recent post don’t normally disagree with him but this time I bet it is considerably more.
Members opinions are their own & everyone has the right to express them in open forum, (so long as the rules are not broken) however when this comes in the form of a thread that is a personal attack I think this over steps the mark. You know little about me & my motivations for teaching, any time you want to come up & see this side of my work you are more than welcome, you will see just what level 3 plumbers on the 6189 are expected to know & just how hard they have to work to achieve it, this I am sure will broaden your horizons into plumbing rather then just being a domestic installer.
CW
