ID condensate pipe??

[Dickie]

If a 21.5mm condensate pipe is stuck into a washing machine trap, is this a ID situation??
Views please.

 

[Barry98]

Picture ? Is it open ended ?

 

[hammers4spanner]

New builds do that

 

[Dickie]

Yup, open a standard McAlpine WM3.

 

[Dickie]

New builds do that

That's where I've seen it & I think it's ID.

 

[Ermintrude]

Has boiler got its own integral 75mm trap?

Condensate is a product of combustion? Not sure u can ID as its not an immediate risk to life or property though if boiler has a trap. My thought would be AR ?

 

[Dickie]

I think it's ID as the integral trap could have no water in it.

 

[SimonJohns]

Why is there such a concern over condensate pipes

There is a trap in the boiler

It is not going to spill in to a room

If it did we would have to check every outlet on a waste pipe. And the sewers would be full of POC's.

What's the problem?

Please someone explain it to me!

 

[SimonJohns]

And before anyone quotes a icos style boiler about the traps. I know and it's horses for courses. I'm talking in Genral

 

[Dickie]

Drains & sewers are vented to atmosphere & as I said the integral condensate could have no water in it or the water syphoned out of it, so POCs directly into the room.

I did a repair for a pal in his buy to let & BG had IDed the install cause the 21.5 had a crack in it.

 

[Ermintrude]

I think it's ID as the integral trap could have no water in it.

Mfr all state u should fill trap before commissioning boer. If trap empty its the appliance that's ID as a saftey device on it has failed. Or by same route prv would be ID if burner was dry and had a hole in it?

How would trap be empty? Open end would stop symphonic action and boiler would fill it up if all working ok?? It's not immediate danger so how could it be ID if all else ok?

 

[SimonJohns]

That's stupid.

That's not ID. It would have to be spilling


And if you want to work on that basis. The boiler MAY develop a hole in the casing. And MAY develop a gas leak because a rat chewed through a gas pipe

Go back to college

I feel sorry for all the people that you are cutting boiler off for

 

[Barry98]

Once in the trap its liquid not gas

 

[Mickplumb]

I think it's Ncs but its open to interpretation
It would only syphon the internal trap if it was sealed to the stand pipe not open ended,not installed to manufactures instructions ?

 

[REDSAW]

its ncs!.
gas safe would not be bothered where it exits as long as it does satisfactory!

its not immediately dangerous or at risk to kill! its substandard..then again best to have an airbreak any way.

 

[Mickplumb]

Mind you the first condensing boiler I fitted about 15yrs ago potterton envoy I think just stuck the cond out the wall and stuck an elbow on it onto the block paving

 

[Dickie]

And before anyone quotes a icos style boiler about the traps. I know and it's horses for courses. I'm talking in Genral

I rest my case M'Lud!! Though I do know several manufacturers show this type (WM3) of trap in their MIs & it's commonly done in new builds, it's only as safe as the integrity of the internal trap & most boiler trap sensors will only show a fault if the trap backs-up, not if it's empty.

 

[Dickie]

Another boiler I was at had a leaking trap & the daft tenant took the base of the trap of & put a dish under it to catch the water easier. You could feel the POCs being blown out the trap & my FGA went off the scale!!

 

[SimonJohns]

I rest my case M'Lud!! Though I do know several manufacturers show this type (WM3) of trap in their MIs & it's commonly done in new builds, it's only as safe as the integrity of the internal trap & most boiler trap sensors will only show a fault if the trap backs-up, not if it's empty.

Well your certainly living up to your name. Minus the ie

There's no need for the ID you have just slapped on someone.

If the trap was to empty. If there was to be an earth quake. If there was to be a car crash in to my house. If if if

 

[Dickie]

Well your certainly living up to your name. Minus the ie

There's no need for the ID you have just slapped on someone.

If the trap was to empty. If there was to be an earth quake. If there was to be a car crash in to my house. If if if

Can I please point out that you're being very rude Simon, when all I'm looking for is an objective view. And given your poor spelling, I feel you're in no position to give advice on education.
Perhaps the Mods could view your posts with the same rigorous scrutiny they afford my good self??

 

[SimonJohns]

Can I please point out that you're being very rude Simon, when all I'm looking for is an objective view. And given your poor spelling, I feel you're in no position to give advice on education.
Perhaps the Mods could view your posts with the same rigorous scrutiny they afford my good self??

I'm not giving poor advice

You've cut someone off for a pipe that has been fitted to MI and also is safe.

Over charging someone for a job is not one of my favourite things to do

It's getting colder now so I hope you turn their heating back on

And I don't feel that my spelling gas anything to do with this. I certainly know how to read the regs

And fine. Get the mods. I'm sure a few have already passed a comment on this thread

 

[Dickie]

Can you please point out where I 'cut someone off' Simon?? Do you have Specsavers in Wales?? Perhaps not??

 

[Mickplumb]

Surely you would explain to the owner your concerns and remove the trap and connect the cond straight Into the 1 1/2 waste

 

[Mickplumb]

Sorry is this a hypothetical situation ?

 

[AlexGas]

Peace!

 

[Dickie]

Sorry is this a hypothetical situation ?

What, Simon's reading specs being on top of his head, when he thinks he's lost them??
Simon: 'I asked the wife if she know where they are & all she said was.........Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!

 

[SimonJohns]

What, Simon's reading specs being on top of his head, when he thinks he's lost them??
Simon: 'I asked the wife if she know where they are & all she said was.........Baaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!

I have no idea of how that is funny

 

[Barry98]

Calm down.Or


simples

 

[Mike Jackson]

Why is a condense pipe going to an open pipe ID. AR or even NCS? Many manufacturers recommend an internal air gap. Even if it's not a 75mm trap there's nowt wrong with it. The reason for the 75mm trap is to allow direct connection to a foul drain not to prevent POCs entering the room.

Completely ignoring connections to WM wastes etc. has anyone used a condense pump? The condense pipe drops through a hole in the top of the pump with a gap round it, it is not sealed, it is open to atmosphere.

To get a customer up and running I'll quite happily drop the condense into a bucket under the boiler over night. Oh shock horror I've left the end of the condense pipe unsealed. FFS has all common sense departed our industry.

 

[SimonJohns]

Why is a condense pipe going to an open pipe ID. AR or even NCS? Many manufacturers recommend an internal air gap. Even if it's not a 75mm trap there's nowt wrong with it. The reason for the 75mm trap is to allow direct connection to a foul drain not to prevent POCs entering the room.

Completely ignoring connections to WM wastes etc. has anyone used a condense pump? The condense pipe drops through a hole in the top of the pump with a gap round it, it is not sealed, it is open to atmosphere.

To get a customer up and running I'll quite happily drop the condense into a bucket under the boiler over night. Oh shock horror I've left the end of the condense pipe unsealed. FFS has all common sense departed our industry.

At least someone agrees with me 😀

 

[tamz]

It is not classed as anything.
If you read BS6798 it is allowed. Here is a bit from it if you don't have it.

4.3.4.2 Connection to an internal waste pipe (Figure 2)
Provided that the condensate drainage pipe meets the requirements of 4.3.3 and 4.3.4, there is no length restriction.
The connection shall be made to the internal waste pipe from a sink, washing machine or dishwasher. The connection may be made either downstream [Figure 2a)] or upstream [Figure 2b)] of the waste trap.
NOTE If practical, the connection should be made to the upper part of the pipe wall.
— If the connection is downstream of the waste trap and the boiler does not have an integral condensate trap with a seal of at least 75 mm then an additional trap of at least 75 mm shall be fitted. A visible air
break shall be included between these traps.
— If the connection is upstream of the waste trap, then a visible air break is necessary between the waste trap and the condensate trap but, in the case of a sink, this is provided by the sink waste pipe itself as
long as the sink has an integral overflow.
In order to prevent waste from the sink, washing machine or dishwasher entering the condensate trap, there shall be a minimum of 100 mm between the visible air break at the lowest condensate trap and the
top of the sink or visible air break serving the washing machine or dishwasher.





All the answers are in the books if you read them.

 

[Dickie]

It would be interesting to hear Gas Safe's take on it.

 

[SimonJohns]

It would be interesting to hear Gas Safe's take on it.

Now you are being silly. Tams has uploaded an extract from the regs


Would you like to borrow my glasses?

 

[AlexGas]

Same here:
The above pic is from MI for Greenstar CDI. This is one of the options we should follow to terminate the condensation pipe. My question to Dickie is – Could POC come into a property through the slotted waste? Is it fail here!?

 

[Dickie]

LOL!! Yes please Simon.