Mr Wilsons full system build

[Mr Wilson]

random question regarding filling of pipework in wall.

looking at this image

should i just use a render to fill in and around connector ( in germany they use a type of clay. its not as strong as cement but harder than plaster) or should i use some expander foam around connectors as if i needed to go back into connector to say fix a leak removing the foam would be way easier than render.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

you should be fine if you leak tested it and i would use patching plaster/ what you use in Germany

if your unsure you could always wait until you finished the system and then fill in if you could ?

 

[Mr Wilson]

you should be fine if you leak tested it and i would use patching plaster/ what you use in Germany

if your unsure you could always wait until you finished the system and then fill in if you could ?

cheers shaun ... ill render it up than... wont be using the system till next winter or have the full build ready for water for at least another 6 months so im just gonna have to trust the pressure test.

 

[Howsie]

Out of interest, why have you chosen radiators over UFH?

 

[Mr Wilson]

Out of interest, why have you chosen radiators over UFH?

hea howsie...

i did look into UFH but with a house this size and age to do UFH could be a lot more work, cost a lot more than rads and uncover a lot more unseen issues.
id have to pull up floors (this room is the only floor that needed to be replaced) lay screeds and the extra weight of the screeds may effect the old joists.
i think there may be complications with all the extra pumps and zoning may create a headache for me and im far more confident with running rads myself than full house UFH. but i think it comes down to time i like UFH i think for its thermal benefits and it certainly adds value to the property but the extra time and cost to lay it makes it not so attractive a direction for me.
Im still in talks with the wife if we do UFH in both bathrooms but the problem come up with the screed weight and the lift height transition between hallways and bathrooms.

will have to see im nearly finished the 2nd bedroom and next will be main bathroom

 

[Howsie]

hea howsie...

i did look into UFH but with a house this size and age to do UFH could be a lot more work, cost a lot more than rads and uncover a lot more unseen issues.
id have to pull up floors (this room is the only floor that needed to be replaced) lay screeds and the extra weight of the screeds may effect the old joists.
i think there may be complications with all the extra pumps and zoning may create a headache for me and im far more confident with running rads myself than full house UFH. but i think it comes down to time i like UFH i think for its thermal benefits and it certainly adds value to the property but the extra time and cost to lay it makes it not so attractive a direction for me.
Im still in talks with the wife if we do UFH in both bathrooms but the problem come up with the screed weight and the lift height transition between hallways and bathrooms.

will have to see im nearly finished the 2nd bedroom and next will be main bathroom

I'd have gone for UFH. Cheaper to run in the long run, a much more comfortable and very easy to control and feed via multiple heat sources; Heat pump, boiler etc.

Hey ho.

 

[Mr Wilson]

I'd have gone for UFH. Cheaper to run in the long run, a much more comfortable and very easy to control and feed via multiple heat sources; Heat pump, boiler etc.

Hey ho.

howsie do you have an older place or did ya build new? i would prefer UFH i think its the best option if possible.
i think if we had a more modern type house ie concrete slab floors and not dirt clay and grass reeds , id look into it more seriously but this is a 200 year old building with about 300sqm of floor ... to put in UFH into this place becomes a pretty big job. i did also look into solar panels and IR ( infared panels ) for its thermal heating benefits much the same as UFH. but solar technology isnt quite developed enough to offset the setup cost.

 

[Howsie]

howsie do you have an older place or did ya build new? i would prefer UFH i think its the best option if possible.
i think if we had a more modern type house ie concrete slab floors and not dirt clay and grass reeds , id look into it more seriously but this is a 200 year old building with about 300sqm of floor ... to put in UFH into this place becomes a pretty big job. i did also look into solar panels and IR ( infared panels ) for its thermal heating benefits much the same as UFH. but solar technology isnt quite developed enough to offset the setup cost.

I and the company I own have done them all. UFH would have been my choice based on what I've read. Large floor surfaces plead for UFH as it gives a lovely even warmth.

I'd have a word with the plumber who designed it for you to ask why he preferred rads. What's done is done.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I and the company I own have done them all. UFH would have been my choice based on what I've read. Large floor surfaces plead for UFH as it gives a lovely even warmth.

I'd have a word with the plumber who designed it for you to ask why he preferred rads. What's done is done.

He's designed and installed it him self

 

[Howsie]

Have you done heat loss calculations for the property?

 

[Mr Wilson]

Have you done heat loss calculations for the property?

yup used a few calculators that i found here on the forum ... and im not fully designing it myself as i used the infomation i got from my plumber who will install and connect the boiler and gas. at this stage all im doing myself is chase walls install rads and run mains to and from boiler. id probably take a wack at the boiler if i was living in india or china somewhere but being in germany with regulators ect and being that it needs gas connection im gonna have the pros do that.

 

[Howsie]

Good for you!

Looking at your diagrams, pictures and description of the building fabric those rads look on the small side.

 

[Mr Wilson]

cheers mate ... ya that would be a little unfortunate if the rads are undersized. in saying that the rad that we just installed in the picture are the smallest of then rads we had planed for bedrooms. i dont know too much about heating houses myself coming from australia in which were trying to achieve the opposite staying cool thus relying of info from others ie our plumber whom seems to say that bedrooms stay around 18C and therefore require smaller rads as oppose to living spaces which require much larger ones. i believe the biggest we have are about 2 meters long.

Sorry about the lack of updated plans .. but rads on plans are not to scale just rectangles to show location and for general zoning planing also not updated. also plans do not show the wood stoves that are on every floor ... this winter we havent had any heating other than the wood heaters and other than the daily chore of chopping wood we stayed walm.
but thanks for the thoughts i guess well see and have to make adjustments if things arent sufficient.

 

[Mr Wilson]

just did a few more heat loss calculations and it seems depending on the calculator i require 2476BTUs or 725w and that was based on an external wall thickness of 250mm ( thickest solid wall option available) our walls are 600mm... this calculator has alot of input info

the 2nd calculator had only a few variables and gave me 5000Bts or 1700w

i just looked at the rating of the smaller rad in picture and at 30% it produces 700w at 50% 1500w and max 2400w

so i guess it could be a little on the low side and if thats the case ill have to enlarge it and again cheers for bringing that to my attention ill certainly be looking out for that next winter.

 

[Howsie]

Here is your answer: CIBSE - Domestic Heating - Design Guide 2015 (Domestic Building Services Panel)

 

[Mr Wilson]

cheers mate looking in to it now

 

[Mr Wilson]

Mr Wilson is Back ... its been a while since ive last posted as german summer sent me and the house reno outdoors but winters approaching fast and its all plumbing now ...

So for an update ive inslutated the roof and almost sheeted it up and now lifting up the old OSB flooring to lay pipework and create a room for the gas burner (viessman 222-F combi ) ... just finnished prepping a space for our gas tank to be brought on site whcih is about 25m away from the house so i gotta dig a 700mm trench for the pipework from the tank to the house than im running it up the wall about 10 m to the attic space.

good news on the plumber front he seems happy to work with me and basically just do a paid labor job and i source all my own parts and materials as the cuts down my cost dramatically. Like the burner i can buy direct for about 3k but through him its closer to 3400 Euros. so ill save myself a few thousand this way.

i got a few questions like recommended sizes of pumps and general layout so i can get all materials ready but ill taks some updated pics which will help discribe where im at .

will report back soon .

 

[Mr Wilson]

So first bedroom is now complete here is some process pics

 

[Mr Wilson]

so next question ive got is size of my pumps for the system.. in short im splitting the house into 2 zones so will need 2 pumps that run aproxx 10ish rads each ... is there a calculator to determine size of pumps needed...

cheers

 

[oz-plumber]

Yes Mr Wilson,

Done the calculations for you.

Grab a couple of Grundfos UPS 25- 60 Pumps. ( or equivalent )
They are 6 meter head pumps with a 3 speed controller.

If they don't work, you have stuffed up your pipe sizing.

Cheers