Approximate cost of a re-plumb

[Maitri]

Thanks sparky, this is what the builder keeps telling us, the plumbing that has leaked since the start the builder keeps saying must be OK because the building regulations via the NHBC passed it but that didn't mean the builder didn't have to re-plumb in the first 6 months the first property on the estate to be sold !! It is odd that none of us have benchmarks but from what Domestic & General have said the boiler had not been commissioned and certainly there is no evidence inhibitor was ever added. Indeed the builder said "I don't think it's law that inhibitor should have been added", but it clearly asks which one was used on the benchmark certs. So what does c.m.l mean? See so-solar above. And who does the pressure testing, and does anyone keep copies of benchmark certs?

 

[tamz]

Reading through this you certainly have had your problems and i can see how you are sick to the teeth of this but you do not need a full repipe of the heating system. You have a leak that needs finding and sorting.
Personally i hate plastic pipes and will do anything i can to avoid using it but modern building methods do not go hand in hand with copper i'm afraid. Builders "generally" also use the cheapest available labour which seldom means even decent.
Your leak must be below the floor or inside a wall. Now if the photo's you posted were of your house build in progress photo 7 shows the pipes laid as continuous lengths? from inside the wall. You could start there . Cut a section of wall out and you should be able to isolate each rad individually to find the problem rad/pipe.
Now to get a tradesman to do this may work out an expensive exercise and it may indead be cheaper to repipe the ground floor. Perhaps you should speak to a reputable local plumber who may offer a better solution.
Btw you could have the full ground floor repiped in a day with minimal mess or disruption if you get the right guys to do the work. Drop inside the walls in 10mm plastic 😱 and exit behind the rads. It is not a hard job to do but may cost up to 1K.

On your other points.
NHBC........totally useless unless your house falls down. They are paid by the builders and "work" for the builders, so unless there is a total fu by the builders you are on the losing side with them. They won't "generally" offer any help.

Your boiler being commisioned.
Whether you have a "benchmark" or not is only a paper excersise. It is a piece of card or on the last few pages of the MI's 60% of which are filled with lies or copied direct from the book. It really is a worthless piece of paper. It contains nothing of any use but manu's will use it as a get out. (you never said what boiler you have?)

The problem with your system. Radiators do not rust due to not being commissioned.
Commision a boiler consists of taking and recording a few readings then sticking some inhibitor in. Nothing special or spectacular. Even commissioned systems can be badly done. Even if it was commissioned as per MI's and the benchmark was filled in correctly, after 3 years of topping up the pressure your inhibitor (if there ever was any) is well washed out and corrosion is taking place.
If the boiler is depressurised but still contains water there is still corrosion taking place (steel rads). Not much of a problem and can be dealt with. You WON'T need new rads.

What you need is a more aggressive approach to the builder. tell him you are getting a plumber (hope you get a good one) in and he is paying as it is an ongoing problem or you will put placards up saying don't buy these houses as the workmanship is terrible and the builder will not resolve any problems. (personally i would have the agent, and the next one etc, scared to come back to work)

 

[REDSAW]

i.m.o for peace of mind. exposed re-pipe is the way to go. this can be skillfully hidden behind skirting boxes an down pipes in capping.
this way, any leaks = min damage, easily spotted and rectified, cheaper to do and repair. no future stress.

 

[Nat]

The CML or council of mortgage lenders inspect the flat or house when it is finished to see if it is mortgageable as I understand it. They're never going to know if there's a problem with the plumbing but you may have some recourse down this route.

 

[so-solar]

nhbc do a pre plaster inspection, the last site i was on the nhbc officer asked to see the pressure test cert!

Also, to pass the c.m.l all of the relevant paperwork which included the commissioning paperwork,benchmarks had to be filled in and presented to the hhbc,

We have had red marks and houses fail nhbc for not filling in the unvented cylinder sticker!

It seems you have a very poor nhbc officer, and the builder sounds terrible!

As for copies not being kept, there is a sticker on the front of your cylinder with the installers information, just check if this is filled in?

 

[unguided1]

Are your neighbours suffering with the same problems if so speak to them about it because it will strengthen your case with the builder and NHBC

 

[Maitri]

Yes there are 6 properties known to have plumbing /boiler problems and 2 as yet in the same build, unsold. I got them all to write down the problems they have had and presented it to the NHBC and asked them to look at the problems across the estate and whether the plumbing /heating should have been given the "building regs via the NHBC" that the builder keeps throwing at us as evidence that there is nothing wrong with a system that leaks the only problem is people like me who cause trouble! Nos 43 the first house to have been sold in the road, as I have already said, was re-plumbed within 6 months of them moving in because boiler kept losing pressure and they could not track down the leak. The original plumber from the estate wasn't paid and is now out of business, the builders new plumber stood in front of the NHBC claims agent (when he came to look at the problems at our property 2 years later ) and admitted it was easier to re-plumb than track down the leak, as if that was all perfectly normal and of no consequence to the other 5 properties all suffering similar problems!! Amazing. The builder knew the problems with the plumbing and just kept on selling properties. The young couple next door (and this has been reflected across the other properties) had a hose blow off from below their boiler (there is copper up to the boiler so I am not sure what blew) but he turned the water off, when he turned the water back on the pipe blew off the back of the upstairs toilet (?) and water gushed down their staircase ! They are, indeed we all are worried to go away in case we come back to a flood. My current concern is I know what the NHBC are like, and the solicitor allocated to our case via our buildings insurance made initial contact yesterday and said, "it would be prudent to consider what the NHBC says." ALARM BELLS. In my experience of solicitors they are not imaginative, they hate doing anything that rocks boats or hasn't been done before, and they are EXPENSIVE so most cases are not proportionate to the kind of money that can be gained by litigation. Our insurer had passed our file to another solicitor, they thought it would be a claim in the small claims court (up to £5000) and quoted £2500 for fees! Then it turned out they acted for the builder, not like you can find that information very easily these days on the old PC! So yes, when I heard from solicitor, despite the case looking sound, solicitor was clearly not interested that the problem was reflected in other properties only really interested in what the NHBC will say so I thought I would start to consider my options because I have been fighting this for a year now with the builders with the support of the CIPHE offering me support in tracking down the pipe etc and WRAS but I have been in a similar situation before (indeed it is how I became homeless for a year and ended up moving here) battling with authority figures that just don't budge and getting nowhere life is too short. This time I realise I am not alone, nobody in the road wants to keep paying for this shoddy plumbing, 4 properties have problems with their boilers permanently losing pressure, they could well all be chock-a-block with swarf and sludge like ours AND leaking, but I am running out of ideas as to how we can get this sorted. SO REALLY REALLY APPRECIATIVE OF THE FEEDBACK YOU HAVE ALL GIVEN ME THANKS AGAIN

 

[capitanpugwash]

You say the property has previously flooded and had other issues. When you purchased the property I believe you said it was from somebody else. You should have during the conveyancing process have received a form filled in by the sellers called 'additional enquiries' form or something like that. In it, there will have been questions about whether the vendors have had problems with the house, the structure, flooding etc. In it there may have been questions concerning issues or disputes with the developer etc. This is a signed declaration and stands in a court of law.

Admittedly you will have to gain evidence that the sellers knew of these issues and have not declared them. This will have to be more than just the neighbours telling you they knew and more along the lines of a petition or group letter. Maybe there will be a letter of complaint to the council building regs department which could be a matter of public record. Either way, if the vendor has been dishonest in not declaring where requested all of the required information then you should have comeback.

I know that this is demoralising for you near to retirement and at the moment you are pursuing NHBC and the developer but this is another avenue to pursue. Where in the country are you? There may be someone on this board who can pop round and have an honest and open discussion on the merits of further work.

Good luck.

 

[Maitri]

Hi Capitanpugwash yeh I have considered this but previous vendor died so it was sold by relatives who didn't live in area and they can claim they really didn't know about the problems or simply that they thought the problems had been sorted by the builder. The previous purchaser lived here just one year, he found he had terminal cancer when he went to register with new doctor, so problems with plumbing weren't probably high up on his agenda!

 

[capitanpugwash]

Ok Maitri, Another quick thought: You can claim yourself through the small claims court. If you get all the evidence together yourself: history of leaks, problems with boiler, plumbing etc and keep it well documented and reasonably narrow in your claim for, say, a newly installed boiler and central heating system. Keep the claim reasonable (£2500 maybe) and you can hope that the developer does not turn up for the case as is quite common and the award could go in your favour. Whether you then receive the award becomes another battle, but much of the filing is done online now and the cost is around the £100 mark if I remember rightly. The whole set-up is very informal and designed for the lay person to respresent themselves in a non court environment. No wigs, no benches etc. I would consider that route possibly. Particularly if you can get two or three matching and consistent assessments from plumbers to present to the court that all say that the system is not fit for purpose, is poorly installed, does not conform to current standards and would be economically cheaper to replace. A judge would be far more independent that NHBC and more likely to uphold your claim that the installation is not fit for purpose and requires replacement. That's maybe how I would proceed.

My old man's a solicitor and has a couple of tasty sports cars. They don't get there by being reasonably priced. He was tempted to become a plumber when he found out how much they earn ;-)....

 

[bigboy]

You should get in contact with your local council building inspector/conrol officer, he should have details of boiler installation, also you can find your own solicitor under your home insurance if you feel the solicitor provided by your insurance is not suitable which in this case is definately true as conflict of interests, insurance company must pay for your solicitor of choice (of course dependant on policy), can advise further in more detail but need to know your location, and more detailed information on certain aspects. Have experience in Construction law and contract law, but need more details so as to fully establish best course of action as you should first establish on whom the burden of liability lies, i feel you would definately have a strong case as you are not the only one experiencing these problems. But need more info to ascertain which Act or even Acts of law would be suitable to pursue in your claim, in my view from the info given you not only have a claim for the plumbing problems but for the negligence of appropiate professionals who have obviously not complied with relevant legislation applicable in England. If you want a more detailed plan of action feel free to ~PM me and ill tell you what details I require. PS you should keep a written record of all events, problems any contact made with any party involved including time and dates as well as names and contents of any communications relating to your problems, anyway PM me and ill see if I can help, but without establishing the full facts, //i really cant comment any further.

Good Luck anyway