BSP male to Metric fine thread female

[Paul Strang]

As a novice I apologise in advance for any misunderstanding in the description of my issue.

I have to make some amendments to a bath tap with a brass fine threaded pipe. This involves cutting the pipe in two and finding a way to connect the two halves again after circumventing a bath overflow, for example using a simple 22mm flexihose.

I am therefore looking for 2 reducers that will reduce a BSP 20mm male pipe to a Metric 16mm female fine thread pipe (the pitch = 1 i.e. 1 thread per 1mm, hence ‘fine thread’).

I established the pipe size and thread type by matching it to an MF 16x1 fine thread tapping drill.

I have looked on line and found many reducers, some of which go from 20mm BSP to Metric 16mm but not with fine thread (1 thread per mm).

If anyone can point me in the right direction then I would be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Paul.

 

[Riley]

Could we get some pictures of your problem as I can’t see why you’d possibly need to cut it and rejoin it

 

[Paul Strang]

Hi

Could we get some pictures of your problem as I can’t see why you’d possibly need to cut it and rejoin it

Riley, many thanks for your reply. I do have some pictures on another device so will try and get them over to this one. However, to try and add some more colour...a hole was drilled through the bath for my new tap (not by me 🙂), but when putting the brass pipe coming from the tap through the hole It is obstructed by the overflow of the bath, so the tap sits at an angle. The bottom of the pipe has an important tee-piece figment so we can’t loose that. I needed to find a way to navigate round the overflow. Note there is very little room above it. Thanks for your time Riley, I will get some pics on here ASAP.

 

[Riley]

Ok I’d be more inclined to look for an overflow with less depth rather then cut your tap about

 

[Riley]

Also if that’s not doable then who drilled the bath wrong? Surely they should be sorting it?

 

[king of pipes]

As a novice I apologise in advance for any misunderstanding in the description of my issue.

I have to make some amendments to a bath tap with a brass fine threaded pipe. This involves cutting the pipe in two and finding a way to connect the two halves again after circumventing a bath overflow, for example using a simple 22mm flexihose.

I am therefore looking for 2 reducers that will reduce a BSP 20mm male pipe to a Metric 16mm female fine thread pipe (the pitch = 1 i.e. 1 thread per 1mm, hence ‘fine thread’).

I established the pipe size and thread type by matching it to an MF 16x1 fine thread tapping drill.

I have looked on line and found many reducers, some of which go from 20mm BSP to Metric 16mm but not with fine thread (1 thread per mm).

If anyone can point me in the right direction then I would be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Paul.

I had a similar problem in the summer Paul a am guessing it is as the pictures attached I got over the problem by changing the bath waste to a clicker waste by Insinct from Plumbcity hope this helps . Cheers Kop

 

[MikeJhn]

Can't you get a low profile overflow?

 

[Paul Strang]

Ok I’d be more inclined to look for an overflow with less depth rather then cut your tap about

Hi Riley, I have attached some photos.

Unfortunately the overflow was provided by the company that sold us the bath without telling us it wouldn’t fit (they were useless). We left it too long to return the product because it took me a while to do the bathroom with my limited skills. I have learned the hard way on lots of things.

The overflow comes with posh pop up silver plugs and overflow fittings that match the rest of chrome in the bathroom so we were keen to maintain the finish. I did investigate other overflow options and I found that given the very narrow edge on the bath there was only one very cheap looking set that would allow the tap to fit in the centre without hitting it.

Could we have located the tap elsewhere?...yes indeed but I didn’t know all of this until the hole was drilled and we fitted the overflow.

I have had a few people in with experience to look at the situation and they all arrive at the same conclusion I.e. we need to cut the pipe. I have been in touch with Crosswater (the manufacturer) to see if they could help, but they have been useless and after nearly a month they couldn’t even provide me with the product specifications for the pipe on the tap.

So here I am, stinking of ‘school-boy error’ and being a professional pain on a professional forum 🙂.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Did the hole come pre drilled for the tap ?

 

[Riley]

I’d still bite the bullet and change the overflow

 

[Chuck]

We left it too long to return the product because it took me a while to do the bathroom with my limited skills.

Unless it's taken you six years, if you were sold the tap overflow and bath as single 'system' you can probably claim that it is unfit for its intended purpose and send it back for a refund using contract law as the basis for the claim. Consult your solicitor or the CAB if you want ot pursue this avenue.

If you're stuck with it, what you are proposing as a solution seems a bit marginal to me. If the other suggestions above don't suit, can you close the central hole with a nice chrome blanking plate and install a couple of traditional separate hot and cold taps on either side? They'll be much less trouble in the long run that any 'designer' mixer.

Don't forget to repace the window with obscuring glass BTW.

 

[Paul Strang]

Can't you get a low profile overflow?

Many thank Kop, I will take a look pal. I appreciate your time. What a polava for just a tap...who would have thought they be so much trouble.

 

[Paul Strang]

Did the hole come pre drilled for the tap ?

Hi Shaun, no it didn’t. I was sold the stuff and having not been through the process of buying/fitting a bathroom I did not consider the possibility that they would’nt be compatible. A friend helping me with the bathroom asked me where I wanted tap and I said centre...not knowing that when we added the overflow and waste that it would obstruct the tap. So my naive inexperience maybe cost me here. I just need to find a solution cause it’s cost even more time and energy. I like what I have so if I can adapt it then I would like to try.

 

[Paul Strang]

I’d still bite the bullet and change the overflow

I hear you mate, it’s been emotional. But I still can’t believe that the isn’t a simple way of joining two pieces of pipe...especially after seeing all of the workmanship and clever plumbing that went in to my new bathroom under the floors, in the walls and to the boiler that we moved to the loft.

 

[Riley]

There will no doubt be a way but I bet if it fails and leaks your warranty will be kaput or if you damage the tap you will be pig sick

 

[rpm]

I am therefore looking for 2 reducers that will reduce a BSP 20mm male pipe to a Metric 16mm female fine thread pipe (the pitch = 1 i.e. 1 thread per 1mm, hence ‘fine thread’).

I have looked on line and found many reducers, some of which go from 20mm BSP to Metric 16mm but not with fine thread (1 thread per mm).

If anyone can point me in the right direction then I would be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Paul.

If I had access to a lathe I think I could do it, try any small engineering company. These kind of places probably wont have a webpage so you might have to drive around small industrial estates knocking on doors.

 

[Riley]

If I had access to a lathe I think I could do it, try any small engineering company. These kind of places probably wont have a webpage so you might have to drive around small industrial estates knocking on doors.

It’s a good option at least if it were done by an engineer they would likely not knacker the taps integrity

 

[rpm]

It’s a good option at least if it were done by an engineer they would likely not knacker the taps integrity

I`m talking about the reducers as the OP wants, nothing else would be machined.

 

[Riley]

Ohhhhhhhhhh sorry I thought you meant the engineer to alter the existing thread

 

[rpm]

Ohhhhhhhhhh sorry I thought you meant the engineer to alter the existing thread

That would be easy to bush to whatever the OP wanted.

 

[Riley]

Well yes but I’m still inclined to think that based on his pics he’s either going to have to cut down the thread on the tap too or get a smaller overflow

 

[rpm]

I`m not even sure where these reducers he wants are going to be in the pipework, just saying it can be done.

 

[snowhead]

Firstly I hope you've got good mains pressure Hot water otherwise the bath will be cold before it's half full.
All of the water is going through the 16mm outside diameter brass pipe.

The problem with what you're trying to do is it would involve non standard U.K plumbing fittings and would need to be fitted after the tap spout was installed. And there's not much room to play with.
The end of the 16mm pipe will need cutting down rethreading to a thread to match any fitting you can get and an elbow fitted on it to miss the overflow.

 

[Paul Strang]

Unless it's taken you six years, if you were sold the tap overflow and bath as single 'system' you can probably claim that it is unfit for its intended purpose and send it back for a refund using contract law as the basis for the claim. Consult your solicitor or the CAB if you want ot pursue this avenue.

If you're stuck with it, what you are proposing as a solution seems a bit marginal to me. If the other suggestions above don't suit, can you close the central hole with a nice chrome blanking plate and install a couple of traditional separate hot and cold taps on either side? They'll be much less trouble in the long run that any 'designer' mixer.

Don't forget to repace the window with obscuring glass BTW.

Can't you get a low profile overflow?

hi Mike, think I mentioned somewhere after your suggestion but thought best reply to you cause I don’t want you think me rude and I appreciate your suggestion...

I did investigate other overflow options and I found that given the very narrow edge on the bath there was only one very cheap looking set that would allow the tap to fit in the centre without hitting it. Also we kind of liked the nice fittings that came with the one we had so we were keen to find a solution with the plumbing of the tap.

 

[Paul Strang]

Unless it's taken you six years, if you were sold the tap overflow and bath as single 'system' you can probably claim that it is unfit for its intended purpose and send it back for a refund using contract law as the basis for the claim. Consult your solicitor or the CAB if you want ot pursue this avenue.

If you're stuck with it, what you are proposing as a solution seems a bit marginal to me. If the other suggestions above don't suit, can you close the central hole with a nice chrome blanking plate and install a couple of traditional separate hot and cold taps on either side? They'll be much less trouble in the long run that any 'designer' mixer.

Don't forget to repace the window with obscuring glass BTW.

Hi Chuck thanks for educating me on the 6 year rule and CAB and solicitor. It is useful to know this exists. It just seems like an antagonising path that could be littered with ill feeling. Great idea about filling the overflow hole. But the taps we bought were pricey and match other taps and fitments in the bathroom so we are trying to find a way to work around them. Many thanks for your time.

 

[Riley]

Something has to give mate and I would not be doctoring a “pricey” tap as it will throw any warranty comeback you have out the window

 

[Paul Strang]

I`m not even sure where these reducers he wants are going to be in the pipework, just saying it can be done.

Hi RPM, I managed to find something very nearly what I needed on eBay, a simple reducer with 1/2” BSP on the male side to a Metric M16 female. The only problem is it wasn’t fine enough thread to be M16x1 I.e. 1 thread per 1mm. I also found one with 1/2” BSP male to M16x1.5 female. So I am close, perhaps I can get something engineered. I still can’t believe that with all these taps flying around that they don’t exist aplenty.

 

[Riley]

As I keep saying the tap manufacturer will give you everything they believe you need they won’t take into account that it may not fit with the overflow. They won’t expect you to be buying parts to change it

 

[Paul Strang]

Firstly I hope you've got good mains pressure Hot water otherwise the bath will be cold before it's half full.
All of the water is going through the 16mm outside diameter brass pipe.

The problem with what you're trying to do is it would involve non standard U.K plumbing fittings and would need to be fitted after the tap spout was installed. And there's not much room to play with.
The end of the 16mm pipe will need cutting down rethreading to a thread to match any fitting you can get and an elbow fitted on it to miss the overflow.

Hi Snowhead, you clearly bring a lot of experience to the table compared to me, however rather than look to rethread I would either look for a product that already exists with this thread (a small vertical reducer eg see photo) or have one engineered.

I just replied to someone below that I managed to find a small reducer with 1/2” BSP on the male side to a Metric M16 female. The only problem is it wasn’t fine enough thread to be M16x1 I.e. 1 thread per 1mm. I also found one with 1/2” BSP male to M16x1.5 female. So I am close. These things are in total about 12mm long so would fit in the space I have available and I would just attach a BSP 1/2” flexihose. Your suggestion of an elbow I think is the same. Sincere thanks for taking the time to consider my problem. If you know anywhere that provides these products then please do let me know.

 

[Riley]

I’m out

 

[king of pipes]

Get the clicker waste in my post then you will be sorted Paul the tap will then fit with no alterations . Cheers kop

 

[rpm]

I’m out

😀
Last time I typed that I was called a drama queen! (Just saying) 😀

 

[rpm]

Hi RPM, I managed to find something very nearly what I needed on eBay, a simple reducer with 1/2” BSP on the male side to a Metric M16 female. The only problem is it wasn’t fine enough thread to be M16x1 I.e. 1 thread per 1mm. I also found one with 1/2” BSP male to M16x1.5 female. So I am close, perhaps I can get something engineered. I still can’t believe that with all these taps flying around that they don’t exist aplenty.

The thing you seem to forget is that it didn`t come as a whole thing in a box did it plus you had the hole drilled in the bath for the tap postion. That is why these bushes do not exist aplenty as you put it.

 

[Riley]

😀
Last time I typed that I was called a drama queen! (Just saying) 😀

Not by me x

 

[rpm]

Not by me x

No it wasn`t you it was the OP who wasn`t getting the answer he wanted so threw the dummy out. 😀
(Unsure about the x there my friend 😵😀)

 

[Riley]

Ha ha

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m out

You cannot guide some people mate.

 

[Harvest Fields]

😀
Last time I typed that I was called a drama queen! (Just saying) 😀

Are you not???😛😛😛

 

[rpm]

Just to be clear Paul the OP has been very good in respect of the answers he has been given and his response.

 

[Paul Strang]

As I keep saying the tap manufacturer will give you everything they believe you need they won’t take into account that it may not fit with the overflow. They won’t expect you to be buying parts to change it

Hi Riley, thanks for all your input. It was the high street shop that sold it to me with the overflow...which is what was frustrating. I contacted the manufacturer in the event they have parts that can convert from one pipe size and thread to another given they sell their products over here. Sorry for any confusion, and thanks again.

 

[Paul Strang]

If I had access to a lathe I think I could do it, try any small engineering company. These kind of places probably wont have a webpage so you might have to drive around small industrial estates knocking on doors.

Apologies RPM I missed this reply from you earlier...great suggestion and many thanks. I have found a small nearby engineering company that I will approach tomorrow. Sincere thanks for your time and advice.

 

[Paul Strang]

Something has to give mate and I would not be doctoring a “pricey” tap as it will throw any warranty comeback you have out the window

Fair point Riley.

 

[Riley]

It’s difficult if you guys have drilled it wrong I don’t see what you can do. Common sense to me would have been for the seller to warn you. Dare we ask which high street store??

 

[Riley]

It’s difficult if you guys have drilled it wrong I don’t see what you can do. Common sense to me would have been for the seller to warn you. Dare we ask which high street store??

 

[Paul Strang]

Just to be clear Paul the OP has been very good in respect of the answers he has been given and his response.

Thanks RPM. I am defo a novice and I recognise that. I know I may have not been overly clear or perhaps not aware of what is possible and what isn’t. I have found very little help elsewhere and hit a brick wall, which is why I came to you guys for any guidance or suggestions. Will let you know how I get on at the engineers.

 

[Paul Strang]

It’s difficult if you guys have drilled it wrong I don’t see what you can do. Common sense to me would have been for the seller to warn you. Dare we ask which high street store??

Agreed mate completely. As a responsible seller selling to someone like me I think it only fair to highlight the obvious things relating to the products being sold. If I had known then the hole would not have been drilled there. I just have to make the best of a naff situation.

 

[Paul Strang]

It’s difficult if you guys have drilled it wrong I don’t see what you can do. Common sense to me would have been for the seller to warn you. Dare we ask which high street store??

Store was Bathe in Wigan.

 

[Paul Strang]

The thing you seem to forget is that it didn`t come as a whole thing in a box did it plus you had the hole drilled in the bath for the tap postion. That is why these bushes do not exist aplenty as you put it.

Ok fair point.

 

[king of pipes]

PAUL HELLO ! DID YOU MISS MY POST GET THIS PART IT WILL SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM TAKE THE EXISTING ONE WASTE AND OVERFLOW BACK FOR A REFUND ITS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, START ALTERING THE BRASS WARE WILL VOID ITS WARRANTY THERE IS NO NEED TO BOTHER ENGINEERING ANYTHING . Kop

 

[Paul Strang]

PAUL HELLO ! DID YOU MISS MY POST GET THIS PART IT WILL SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM TAKE THE EXISTING ONE WASTE AND OVERFLOW BACK FOR A REFUND ITS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, START ALTERING THE BRASS WARE WILL VOID ITS WARRANTY THERE IS NO NEED TO BOTHER ENGINEERING ANYTHING . Kop

View attachment 36781

Hi Kop, yes indeed my mate I did see this and am checking it out this morning. Sincere thanks for going out of your way to help me.

 

[MikeJhn]

If it's a single hole designer tap, it does not have to be in the middle of the bath end, blank off the hole already drilled and move the tap to the corner.

Can't believe the spell check has highlighted the word "off".

 

[rpm]

PAUL HELLO ! DID YOU MISS MY POST GET THIS PART IT WILL SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM TAKE THE EXISTING ONE WASTE AND OVERFLOW BACK FOR A REFUND ITS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, START ALTERING THE BRASS WARE WILL VOID ITS WARRANTY THERE IS NO NEED TO BOTHER ENGINEERING ANYTHING . Kop

THINK THE OP HAS TWICE SAID HE DOESN`T WANT TO CHANGE IT BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE OTHER STUFF.
(just saying).

 

[Riley]

THINK THE OP HAS TWICE SAID HE DOESN`T WANT TO CHANGE IT BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE OTHER STUFF.
(just saying).

Something has to give though mate. I think he either butchers the tap and loses warranty or changes the overflow and it should all fit

 

[rpm]

Something has to give though mate

Don`t get me wrong, I`m in agreement and know what I would do, it`s just that one member keeps banging on and didn`t seem to read the replies. Maybe I shouldn`t have posted.

 

[Paul Strang]

If it's a single hole designer tap, it does not have to be in the middle of the bath end, blank off the hole already drilled and move the tap to the corner.

Can't believe the spell check has highlighted the word "off".

Many thanks for this Mike and it is something that I hadn’t considered. May I ask what you would use to blank off the hole to leave it aesthetically okay and also waterproof?

 

[MikeJhn]

Something like these: chrome tap hole blanking plate - Google Search

Or a remote control for the waste, but then you may run into the same problem of insufficient room.

Mike

 

[Paul Strang]

Something has to give though mate. I think he either butchers the tap and loses warranty or changes the overflow and it should all fit

Thanks Riley yep something has to give mate, which I suppose is what this process has been about for me given I have never really been in this situation before. I prefer to play dumb and listen to experienced people rather than assume I have a plan or solution after doing just some reading on the internet. Many thanks for your input.

 

[Paul Strang]

Don`t get me wrong, I`m in agreement and know what I would do, it`s just that one member keeps banging on and didn`t seem to read the replies. Maybe I shouldn`t have posted.

RPM thanks for your input mate, I find you very pragmatic and logical thinker. You have been a real help. Many thanks for your time.

 

[Paul Strang]

Something like these: chrome tap hole blanking plate - Google Search

Mike

Thanks Mike, no messing around! I didn’t even realised this sort of thing was available. Coming on here has been very helpful. Appreciated.

 

[Chuck]

Will let you know how I get on at the engineers.

I haven't read the whole thread, but if you are getting a workshop to make you an adaptor check that they are going to use an appropriate type of brass not just whatever they have in stock. Stuff with a high zinc content is likely to get corroded/porous. Stuff with too much lead in it will breach the water regulations. Some brass is porous due to long fissures in the rolling direction, etc. Do some research before placing the order.

@YorkshireDave might be able to advise on the best type to use. It's a topic I'd expect him to be all over due to his interest in replacement tap cartridges.

Also, see how much they'd charge for making a couple of spares while they're set up. Just in case...

 

[Paul Strang]

I haven't read the whole thread, but if you are getting a workshop to make you an adaptor check that they are going to use an appropriate type of brass not just whatever they have in stock. Stuff with a high zinc content is likely to get corroded/porous. Stuff with too much lead in it will breach the water regulations. Some brass is porous due to long fissures in the rolling direction, etc. Do some research before placing the order.

Also, see how much they'd charge for making a couple of spares while they're set up. Just in case...

Good advice and most welcome. Thanks for taking the time to write this out Chuck. I’m learning all the time at the moment!

 

[rpm]

THINK THE OP HAS TWICE SAID HE DOESN`T WANT TO CHANGE IT BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE OTHER STUFF.
(just saying).

Sincere apologises to kop, I really should of worded it better this morning - Sorry bud.

 

[Welder]

No it wasn`t you it was the OP who wasn`t getting the answer he wanted so threw the dummy out. 😀
(Unsure about the x there my friend 😵😀)

😉

 

[Welder]

@YorkshireDave might be able to advise on the best type to use. It's a topic I'd expect him to be all over due to his interest in replacement tap cartridges.

Did someone call ? (imagine the Bat hot-line ringing....) Hmm. Can anyone spell shambles?

First thing that occurs to me is to ask how long you intend this to last Paul?

I would strongly advise you to get spares NOW. If my recollection is correct, they were not any form of standard such as BS5412 or BS 1010 fit.

Post 8 seriously concerns me. Stressing components like that will means something will give and it also looks like it is impossible to seal the tap against the bath top.

If having parts made, I'd suggest low lead brass - 2% or less. However, no matter what you have made, if you are stressing components then you can be 100% certain of some leaking and subsequent low term deep seated damage to your home as it those are by their very nature slow and insidious. You can expect considerable expense to rectify once discovered.

If you cannot fit the taps simply, and without interfering with other components, when the bath is in situ then you should abandon the use of one or other of the components that are conflicting.

I fully understand it's not what you want to hear, but it is the most sensible advice I can offer insofar as you will then have a usable, leak free bath where the taps are then replaceable once they fail.

Sorry.

 

[MikeJhn]

When you say how long does he expect it to last I thought immediately you meant the thread, it does seem to be going on a bit, I suggested putting the tap in the corner and putting a blanking plate on the incorrectly drilled hole, it is the easiest solution.

It feels a bit like Brexit, no solution is good enough.