Central heating problem over 4 floors, please help!

[dancematic66]

Dear all,

I have joined these forums because I have a problem with my heating system and from what I have read this seems to be the most comprehensive site on the net!

I live in a 4 story townhouse and there is something wrong with the heating system.

When the system is on only two radiators on the ground and first floors get hot, the others are just mildly warm at the bottom.

On the second and third floors pretty much non of the radiators warm up at all. One or two getting luke warm on the bottom.

I haver turned the system off and bled all the radiators from the top floor downwards.

On the third and second floors either nothing comes out at all or a small amount of gas and no water.

On the first and ground floors the radiators bleed like normal. Emitting a quantity of gas and then water (Black at first then running clear).

After performing the bleeds I then turned the system back on and the radiators were the same...

I'm not a plumber or gas engineer so can only guess what the problem is by reading other posts however the isn't an accurate enough way of diagnosing the problem.

Please could you all try and help me diagnose what is wrong and if possible direct me to fix it (If within my capabilities).

I am going to take some photos of the boiler etc.. so you can all see what is going on!

Many thanks,

Michael.

 

[SimonJohns]

What boiler do you have?
Is there tanks in your loft?

 

[dancematic66]

Hi John,

Thanks for the quick reply, I am just uploading some pictures of the boiler setup and am going to double check if there are any tanks (I'm pretty sure there aren't).

thanks,

Michael.

 

[nysk2008]

How old is the property / heating system?

 

[nysk2008]

has it been maintained i.e. Cleaned, serviced etc in the past 12 months?

 

[dancematic66]

Hi all,

There are no tanks in the attic, and the system hasn't been maintained within the last 24 months or longer..

The property is around about 7 years old.

I am trying to upload pictures of the heating system but the upload is failing, maybe there is a max image size that I am exceeding?

Thanks,

Michael.

 

[nysk2008]

Do you have a cylinder? I am assuming you have an unvented cylinder and a system boiler?

 

[dancematic66]

Hi all,

Here are some pictures of the system in the house.

This is in the ground floor utility room:





















This is in the second floor airing cupboard:







Thanks,

Michael.

 

[nysk2008]

sounds to me like any of the following that need further investigation

pumps shot
sludge in system
balance


these r what I would look at as a first port of call

 

[dancematic66]

Thanks for the reply nysk,

Is there anything I can do to try and fix it or is this really a job for a qualified engineer?

 

[nysk2008]

None of them involve any gas work but you do have an unvented cylinder which shouldnt need touching so in theory you could give it go - depends how competent you deem yourself. If things go ti** you could get very wet. If not I would get an engineer with their unvented ticket as a minimum and take it from there. where u based?

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Michael
Your first port of call is to put some water into the heating system your pressure gauge on the big red expansion vessel is reading zero & big clue no water on top floors but still ok on lower.

 

[nysk2008]

did nt spot that Chris - good shout

Hi Michael
Your first port of call is to put some water into the heating system your pressure gauge on the big red expansion vessel is reading zero & big clue no water on top floors but still ok on lower.

 

[chris watkins]

Do you know were your filling loop / point is ? It should be a silver flexible hose that is used to connect a mains cold water supply to a heating pipe with some valves on either side & a pressure gauge close by?? I can't see it around the boiler so most likely next to the hot water cylinder (high level) ? the other thing we will need to know is how many floor are above this point ?

 

[nysk2008]

also wen refilled, run heating and check tundish to see if discharging

 

[dancematic66]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies!!

Well I deem myself competant enough to follow direct instructions but have no real knowledge of heaing systems.

I work for an exhibition company so am not a DIY failure!

I was trying to find info about the expansion vessel last night after noticing the gauge was reading 0.

I will go and check where this flexible hose is.

Thanks,

Michael.

 

[dancematic66]

Ok so this is in the airing cupboard on the second floor:



There is one more floor above this.

 

[SimonG]

That's your filling loop. No need for the gym today your gonna get your excercise running up and down stairs. Top it up to about 2 bar and then start on ground floor and vent the rads until water comes out. If nothing comes out then it's back to the filling loop to add more water and repeat upwards through the house. When finished you want your pressure gauge on 1 bar.

 

[chris watkins]

OK Michael close then, not above cylinder but down next to it, not bad a. OK using the black lever on the filling loop valve turn it slowly until it is inline with the pipe not across it, you should hear water start to flow into the heating system. You will need to watch the pressure gauge next to the expansion vessel as the water flows in the pressure should rise. You should put in enough water to raise the pressure up to around 0.5 Bar (it should be no more the 1Bar).
You will need to go back up to the top floors & bleed the rads the water pressure will probably run out & you will have to go down & top it back up. Continue until all the rads are full of water before turning on & testing (check & vent any that require on going). If pressure does not hold up you have a leak some where that will need to be found & repaired.

 

[dancematic66]

Hi both,

Thanks a bunch for the direction! I am going to go and try out what you have just told me.

Just one question, does the system need to be completely off before I introduce water/bleed the rads?

 

[chris watkins]

1 Bar Simon sounds a bit high for just one floor above ?? (1 Bar = 10 Metre head i.e. 1M = 0.1Bar)

 

[chris watkins]

I would not have it on but would not matter too much, just turn it off on the programmer.

 

[SimonG]

1 Bar for me.

I'd also be having a look at the pressure relief valve discharge for a dribble. Maybe tape a bag or coke bottle over it to see if it's leaking.

Be nice to know how many rads on the system as the pressure vessel looks a little on the small side as well.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Once this sorts out your system, looks to be loss of water, you need to think about getting it cleaned ! and inhibitor added, when was it last serviced ? Red tank needs checking , may need rechargeing or replaceing.

 

[dancematic66]

Hi all,

Ok I will turn it off at the programmer, fill the tank, bleed the radiators above until they are full of water.

Should I then repeat this process on all floors until all radiators are full?

Just so you know there are:

3 radiators on ground floor.
2 radiators on first floor.
4 radiators on second floor.
3 radiators on third floor.

12 in total.

 

[dancematic66]

Now have got water flowing out of all three top floor radiators, the first time they have ever felt warm!! 🙂

Should I repeat this process of venting and refilling throughout the house?

 

[dave1]

Yes make sure all radiators have been bled and system refilled.

 

[SimonJohns]

If all are vented and air is out your all good

In future if you vent a radiator. Top the pressure back up

 

[dancematic66]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your help!!

I have now successfully bled all of the radiators, topped the system back up to 1 bar and turned it back on again.

Fingers crossed in 20-30mins all radiators should be piping!!

:-D

 

[gasmann123]

yes system must be off when filling as you will get inaccurate final reading on pressure gauge when all rads are filled as water expands when heated hence the expansion vessel.
oh and u made me lol..lol ...when you vent radiators ..its not "gas" that's coming out ..its air...lol.
had lady last week who ran out her lounge screaming..(made me jump and panic too lol). all i started doing was venting the rad and when she heard the hissing and had a ciggerete lit in her hand she shot out the room like she was stapped to the end of a bungee that had the other end attached in Scotland..never seen any one move so fast ....i had calmed down from giggling about it for days and then i read you post....lol lol

if this does not fix your problem your more likely looking at a sludge build up which will require a power flush with chemicals or theirs a hidden bypass or blockage...simple solution for you man. have agood one
gasmann eastlondon

 

[dancematic66]

Hi Gasmann,

Thanks for the advice, it was a typing error though. I know it's not gas ^_^

Thanks,

Michael.

 

[dancematic66]

Guys,

I have just checked all the rads and they are too hot to touch!

With the exception of one which is on the second floor landing. It is ice cold and is letting cold water out when I bleed it.

The valve is open and here is a picture of the temp control on the other side. It is a bit rusty compared to the others which are clean.



The cap in my hand is shaped like an egg and rotates to show 0 to 5, when it is rotated a small pin in side lowers to pinch the nipple on the radiator valve.

Thanks,

Michael.

 

[dancematic66]

I also depressed the pin on the valve and gave it a tap with a pair of metal pliers incase something had jarred?

 

[Rickster123]

Get that valve changed mate and don't tap it to hard until then!

 

[nysk2008]

I agree, change the valve mate and u should be sorted

 

[jase158]

oh and u made me lol..lol ...when you vent radiators ..its not "gas" that's coming out ..its air...lol

I thought it was a gas, water and air and metal mixing makes hydrogen and this is a gas isnt it?

This is why we add inhibitor to slow this reaction down.

just to be pedantic

 

[chris watkins]

Hi Michael
Lots of advice & comment on this but if you will take a last tip from your uncle Chris, get somebody in to change the rad valve as it is leaking & the system pressure will drop again, over a short time. At the same time get them to do a service on the Megaflo un-vent cylinder, these need to be looked at from time to time (manufacturers say once a year just like boilers) as they can be potentially dangerous if things go wrong. I am not trying to scare you & the photo is not that clear but it does look as though it does not comply with Building Regs G3 & if it has not been looked at in a while it would be a good idea to do the two things at once.
Uncle Chris

 

[gasmann123]

I thought it was a gas, water and air and metal mixing makes hydrogen and this is a gas isnt it?

This is why we add inhibitor to slow this reaction down.

just to be pedantic

i really didn't even want to reply but ..couldn't help it...yes we as engineers know that but some customers think gas goes through the whole system...hence why i mentioned my customer last week and im quite sure gas safe would have a law for all persons venting radiators to have rooms well vented and no smoking while doing it as well as ive never heard any say " hey m8 go vent those rads of hydrogen" ...that's not pedantic mate ....you just need to stop drinking the inhibitor and add some thing mellowing in your rizla....chillski man chillski..
lol lol...

 

[gasmann123]

cool you got it going dude....and yes change that vale completly ..
like people with common sence...u saved your self some good dosh man..beers ( by the barrel )on you ..lol