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I am in the same boat as you, things are always so complicated until you understand them, then you wonder why it was so difficult......it’s not rocket science.....so we‘ll get there 🙏 keep asking questions, it’s the only way to learn.....also when people understand something so well it’s sometimes easy to downplay an answer.....I will persevere, I want to understand this.....trouble is the pump I ordered has lots of options so need to understand that also, just hope the others are patient with me 🤞Thanks John. As I said the other day, the ins and outs of pumps is new to me, so still trying to figure the charts. I understand what you said above but feel free to share more in case I missed something 👍
Page 25 shows two graphs the top one is the normal pump curves and I am just assuming that you have choosen the pump to run on setting CP3 and just suppose that your system will circulate 16.67 LPM at this setting of 4.8m. if you look vertically downwards you will see another graph of power vs flow for all the different pump settings, you have choosen CP3 and because the system is circulating at 16.67 LPM then the pump power required is 35W, if the system, say boiler Hx starts getting dirty/fouled then the pump speed will reduce to maintain this constant head of 4.8M and if it got completely blocked the pump will still maintain 4.8m but with no flow and still require 16.5W. If you had a smaller system in that even when spotelessely clean only circulates 8.3 LPM (0.5m3/hr) then you can see that the pump only requires ~ 25.5W at the constant pressure of 4.5M.Thanks John. As I said the other day, the ins and outs of pumps is new to me, so still trying to figure the charts. I understand what you said above but feel free to share more in case I missed something 👍
I am in the same boat as you, things are always so complicated until you understand them, then you wonder why it was so difficult...it’s not rocket science..so we‘ll get there 🙏 keep asking questions, it’s the only way to learn..also when people understand something so well it’s sometimes easy to downplay an answer..I will persevere, I want to understand this.***.trouble is the pump I ordered has lots of options so need to understand that also, just hope the others are patient with me 🤞
HiJohn what would happen to the watts display if there was a pump problem or restriction in the system?
Page 25 shows two graphs the top one is the normal pump curves and I am just assuming that you have choosen the pump to run on setting CP3 and just suppose that your system will circulate 16.67 LPM at this setting of 4.8m. if you look vertically downwards you will see another graph of power vs flow for all the different pump settings, you have choosen CP3 and because the system is circulating at 16.67 LPM then the pump power required is 35W, if the system, say boiler Hx starts getting dirty/fouled then the pump speed will reduce to maintain this constant head of 4.8M and if it got completely blocked the pump will still maintain 4.8m but with no flow and still require 16.5W. If you had a smaller system in that even when spotelessely clean only circulates 8.3 LPM (0.5m3/hr) then you can see that the pump only requires ~ 25.5W at the constant pressure of 4.5M.
If you take my system as a example which circulates ~ 15 LPM (0.9m3/hr) @ 3.5M.***...I could set the pump to CP2 which is constant pressure at 3.8M, my system would then circulate 15.7 LPM (0.94 m3/hr) @ 3.8M.
with a power demand of 26W.
I woud suggest CP2 (3.8M)as a reasonable starting point, it can very quickly be changed especially with all the info that will be displayed on this pump.
I'll go through another two settings, constant curve (CC) and the most interesting one of all, proportional pressure (PP) control, based on my own system, tomorrow.
There seems to be a fair bit of resistance to flow, however, letting that aside for the moment then from your numbers above, Flowrate 0.70 M3/hr (11.7LPM), deltaT 17C? (72-55) Boiler output = 11.7*60*17/860, 13.88 kw, so as long as the min output of the boiler is > this then there should be no problems. However if you wish to get the return temp down then do as suggested.... reduce the boiler SP. Personally,I don't like running circ pumps (especially A rated ones) flat out, its up to yourself but if you were to consider changing the pump mode to constant pressure , CP3 = 4.5M then you should get a flow rate of 0.63 M3/hr (10.6 LPM) (& 27W) and a slight increase in the boiler deltaT, you can then reduce the boiler SP to suit yourself but remember this will also reduce the rad output/boiler demand and you don't want ro reduce it below the boiler minimum output, can't remember if you have that min output for that boiler?.i installed the new DAB 3 pump today..have been in touch with DAB for guidance, but terminology seems to fluctuate between website, instructions and received emails....reference to constant speed & pressure seem get mixed up..I have been advised to set at constant curve setting @ speed 3 is maximum as a starting point.
think this is the TOP symbol....getting 33-35W 5.4-5.6m & 0.7m3/Hr flow....sometimes it slows down ??? Got no one to help me and watch the boiler, so can onot relate what the pump is doing...I tried Heating + Hot water and Hot water only and readings were the same. Leaving it here for now and monitoring the boiler DT....in the past few days it got worse, outlet temp of 72oC was only achieving 55oC return temperature...so was struggling to keep the boiler in condensing mode.. o idea why the DT had moved away from 20oC.***.
I really hope this pump will resolve my problems, not sure if the top option is the best for
SorryWhat do you mean by D3 on the pump, is it constant pressure as shown in the diagram, and can you read off the flowrate, the head and the watts, can then calculate the boiler output.
And yes your old pump was kaput or full of sludge as it should have been circulating 0.66 M3/hr (11 LPM) at a head of 4.9M based on your new pump readings above.
Thanks, will experiment with your suggestions tomorrow...defo looks like this pump is doing a much better job than the old one......If CP1 doesn’t give a low enough head to achieve a good DT, is there another setting to try ?"What is the theory about having a lower flow Vs inlet temperature ? Is it simply it has more residence time in the rads ? "
More sometimes equals less.
Yes, but you also need to keep the mean radiator temperature as near design temperature as possible, above you have flow/return temps of 68/57, mean of 62.5C which results in the rad emitting 81% of its rated output based on a room temperature of 20C, if you are happy with this but require a return temperature of say 50C but also require the same mean rad temperature of 62.5C then there is only one way of achieving this and that is to raise the boiler/rad flow temperature to 75C and keep reducing the flowrate until the return temp is 50C, this still gives a mean rad temp of 62.5C. and no problems in heating your DHW cylinder.
HOT 🔥is the system hot already or cold ?
Reply to the thread, titled "Central heating pump sizing" which is posted in Central Heating Forum on Plumbers Forums.
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