Check This One Out The Times We Live In.......

[gornsgorns]

Over the last 25 years working class wage inflation has been high. I have enjoyed a good standard of living, and have supported a family, I feel sorry for those starting out.

However, wage inflation amongst a majority of a population, impacts on national inflation, which the government seek to keep low at this time and in the near future.

The skills gap, was really only about bringing down wages, and creating a demand-led system of apprenticeships and training, that does not require employers - no future skills gaps because people can be trained and assessed in colleges. The labour force can be supplied with as many operatives as want to join.

Add to this the fragmented nature of the uk work force - those self employed are only interested in themselves, so have failed to challenge the strategies put through by sector skills councils and awarding bodies - the self employed have no represntation to talk of, because those that profess to represent us, are happy to keep it the way it is (big firms are unaffected by lower working class wages, its what they want.

£6.25 per hour for workers is the only way Europe can function, which is what all the financial fuss is about - in Greece, hair dressers were on 60k a year for a 36 hour week, and able to take early retirement.

Given that self employed people have to pay insurance, accountants, banks, van hire, analysers, tools, holiday pay, training, licences, registrations, paper work etc. I would argue that this £6.25 an hour with a van, equates to about £15 an hour as self employed.

We also seem to forget that being self employed plumber or gas fitter, depends on advertising, surveying, landing work, paying for materials, doing the job to a satisfactory standard, getting paid, and meeting your overheads. Try taking time off, if you are a self employed company director (one man band) and you will be entitled to nothing, no sick pay, nothing. A one-man-band Ltd company has to pay its own sick pay, to a director that is sick.

Installers will be falling over themselves for £6.25 per hour.

This wage also equates to the qualification required to do the job - ACS and 40 days of work experience! - it would take longer to train someone to stack the shelves in Lidle.

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

 

[capitanpugwash]

I can supply you with FACTS and REAL figures that have been verified by leading economists that can prove that Scotland actually pays more into the UK treasury than the bile spewed out by some uninformed people South of the Border.

Try playing the ball and not the player. If you read my post again you will realise that I present the facts in a reasonable and unbiased way. You are factually incorrect with your claims and with an honours degree in economics I don't consider myself to be spewing bile as an uninformed southerner. Your sound bites are as unappetising as the dry sandwich from the BP garage this lunch.

For your information Denmark and Norway produce more crude oil than the UK, so again your REAL FACTS and REAL FIGURE lack some credibility. Let's stick to bathrooms and off politics on this forum.

You should have seen the sweet job I did of an ecoTEC 618 today! Niiiiiiiice.

 

[Guest123]

Capitanpugwash, I'll happily continue this debate elsewhere and refute much of your statement above, but not here as this is not the UK political forum.

Well done on the ecoTEC 618! The most exciting thing I did today was fitting a cheap plastic cistern....bloody horrible looking thing it was! LOL
Ah well, nice bathroom to fit this weekend.

 

[secret squirrel]

Don't want to sound political but calling Britian "Great" is a joke these days. Anyway check your atlas and we live in the United Kingdom, but I'm Scottish and come our referendum in a few years time, we'll hopefully be an independent nation.

Until we invade again and bring you back into the fold.....

 

[Guest123]

Until we invade again and bring you back into the fold.....

Ah but this time we'll be ready for you lot and you'll all get a doing! A cross border plumbers duel to the death.....
Plungers and drain rods at dawn.

 

[dontknowitall]

What? Aren't flamethrowers allowed?

 

[WaterTight]

I'll catapult 20 ft wide balls of fresh silicone. That should stop most people.

 

[dontknowitall]

dkia checks his stock levels of Sticks Like ...

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

I accept a bit of tongue in cheek over-the-topness with this, but don't loose sight of the 40 hour week situation. With the numbers already coming into the industry, and rising admin costs, it will be a quest initself to land 40 hours of work as self employed.

To achieve, 40 hours a week of continuous, productive labour requires a lot of work around the edges. Giving estimates, answering the phone, writing estimates, ordering materials, going on call-backs, guarantee work on boilers that you have not made, people not paying, people wanting something for nothing. I spent a good 20 year period of getting home and spending over an hour each night on the phone returning calls (good times) - all of these little things add up, when we consider that just to turn up as an employee - with a van supplied, and £6.25 an hour is not bad, given current prospects.

 

[samh]

£6.25 per hour is awful! I can work in screwfix for £6.50 an hour!

 

[CES]

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

You are obviously unaware of company national insurance, business (public and employers liability), Corporation tax (if your ltd) accountants fees, banking fees (business accounts charge fees), van insurance, tools, safety gear, training costs, notification costs, gas safe membership. the list goes on, there are a lot of people out there with their hands out, (a lot of them trade "associations"). Then you have the potential for sickness (when you cant bring money in) holiday pay, pension provision etc.
It really annoys me when someone who knows bugger all about running a business bleats when i charge them £35 an hour. They wrongly assume that its going straight into my pocket and I always get the "that's £1400 a week!" comment because they automatically assume that we all have continous work, when in reality our hours are patchy at best. I cant remember the last time I had a full 40 hour week, oh yes I can.. it was when I was an employee and I didn't have all these expenses...
You get my drift?

 

[WaterTight]

Don't forget paperwork, getting materials and parts, typing up quotes, call-backs, last minute cancellations, postponments due to incomplete or incorrect suites / parts, calling round to find nobody is in, chasing payments, chasing pavements...oh no wait, that's Adele.

I tell you I wouldn't kick that Adele out of bed. Because I'd probably break a foot.

 

[fogarty]

LOL best joke I've heard this week, the weekend starts here

 

[Phil]

Jokes? I've got a good joke, its a pitty I cant tell it though or I will be banned. :veryangry2:

 

[nysk2008]

maybe tevev from man city is putting the feelers out, may need a new job soon - soz to all the city fans

 

[nysk2008]

Don't forget paperwork, getting materials and parts, typing up quotes, call-backs, last minute cancellations, postponments due to incomplete or incorrect suites / parts, calling round to find nobody is in, chasing payments, chasing pavements...oh no wait, that's Adele.

I tell you I wouldn't kick that Adele out of bed. Because I'd probably break a foot.

Mate, your bed would be broke before your foot, but - when in rome!

 

[tackleburger]

I have pulled out of plumbing as it is getting ridiculous in terms of price now. Too many plumbers drawn down some cash starting on a property renovation project in the next month. Sick of all the hassle see how it goes over the next few years.

 

[dontknowitall]

That's a shame for you, TackleBurger but quite understandable if the competition is silly. I think the same happened to builders a while back (especially hassle with customers) as I know of a few who've gone into renovating. Hope it goes well for you!

 

[tackleburger]

I could keep going but it's just getting silly. Got undercut on a fit only combi swap I quoted 350 guy got it done for 100. It's funny you mention it to guys in merchants and everyone seems to be suffering the same fate but in my view half the blokes you talk to are doing it just not admitting it. Ill still do my regulars servicing and wee jobs as required but got a place bought ready to go. I do all the electrics, plumbing heating fit the kitchen just get a joiner to do the work tops, and hang some new doors and fit windows. Need a plasterer as well and the rest I'll do decor etc. If I ge a call and I fancy the job I'll do it if not I'll turn it down. No more advertising costs, no more rated people (undercutting society that one) like I said a couple of years time sites may be back on and things may improve.

 

[dontknowitall]

We're hoping to move house and I've decided that with these fast track courses around (and if it pays) I'll go on various short courses to learn electrics (I know some but not enough), plastering, brickwork, etc.

You never know, you might be back to plumbing after a couple of years as all the newbies fall by the wayside again to learn something different (e.g. shelf stacking?)

 

[tackleburger]

Why not if you can add a string or two to your bow. You know I was looking around for something else recently and you can get 12 quid an hour doing hgv 1 trunking work on a back shift add a few plumbing jobs in before you go and you can do ok. I got out of that game 10 years ago because there was no cash in it how times turn

 

[tamz]

It is a shame when long time established guys have to rap it up due to the stupid competition that cannot be competed with.
Some people - not all but most - have unrealistic expectations of what it should cost to get work done which definitely has been worsened by the internet and there is always some numpty willing to do it for less than wages.
I hope your project goes well. It will certainly be less stressful.

 

[tackleburger]

Thanks man. I'll keep you updated. I know of two or three others who feel the same I am lucky in a way as I can do something else. I know one guy who couldn't get work after working for others for 10 years so he bought a van etc now he is out of business after 6 months real shame as he is a damn good plumber

 

[Phil]

I hope it goes well tackleberger, the only advice I can give is try and avoid pre war houses from the era of asbestos artex and lime motar etc.

Some of those houses are held together by dust and asbestos.