Check This One Out The Times We Live In.......

[Pipes Plumbing]

And that gents sums it up...

For the person new to the trade with no experience, wanting to get a foot on the ladder it looks like an opportunity, even though they may not have the experience and skills to do a good safe job on their own.
To those in the trade already with experience and skills, capable of doing a great job regardless of what comes up unexpectedly it seems like a joke.

I really wonder what the employer wants though? I reckon they are after a time served engineer...
What's the phrase here... "Beer money but Champagne tastes" - never going to happen.

As soon as the position gets filled another will come up at a similar rate and so on... This is how labour rates get knocked down and down. 🙁

It's even worse when these ads are public because customers then think that your standard rate is too dear when it is really reasonable.
everyone loses

 

[Guest123]

I blame Mel Gibson.

No I blame you lot for voting for the "Two Ronnies" that we now have in the UK government that are the most unpopular and unsympathetic pair of human beings since Attila the Hun.

Up here we at least have a decent government that cares for all the people and not like Cammy and Cleggy who blame everything on the last government and don't take responsibility for their own mess and also couldn't care less about any one outside the London region.

 

[capitanpugwash]

Hi System3

Shame we couldnt have held onto Brown with his prudent and wise management of the economy. What can anyone do taking over a vast government debt which had been run up larger and larger over 10 years of boomtime. Might have felt nice, but it was never going to last. As our debt gets larger and larger as a country we eventually end up paying over 10% of tax revenues on servicing this vast debt- a figure rising every year. Is this a wise thing to do?

Have you heard of the Barnett forumla devised in the 70s to distribute tax revenues according to need in the late 70s. Since then it has not been altered despite the originator (Joel Benett) describing it as "unfair". In The Scotsman, in January 2004, he wrote, "It was never meant to last this long, but it has gone on and on and it has become increasingly unfair to the regions of England. I didn't create this formula to give Scotland an advantage over the rest of the country when it comes to public funding."

The South-East currently receive £6300 per head from tax revenues and Scotland £8600 per head. So when you talk about having great leaders north of the border you must be referring to the abolition of prescription charges, tuition fees and the like. All of which are funded out of subsidies from the South.

Personally I think a parent who continues to buy goodies and treats for his kids with an ever rising credit card bill and unmanageable mortgage would be irresponsible. Would you like to end up like Italy with a generous but disfunctional father and a crumbling state? As for the claim that the gruesome twosome don't care about anyone outside of London is grossly wrong as shown by the Barnett 'subsidy'. If you do vote for independence then be aware of the consequences after a few years when the subsidies have gone and the debt builds as the potholed roads need maintenance and charges start reappearing.

I am not anti-Scottish, and think the union dissolving would cause all parts to suffer as we are stronger united- both economically and politically. I just struggle to bite my lip sometimes when I read such ignorant spouting about your 'decent' government. Follow Alex to independence at your peril!

:grouphug:

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Over the last 25 years working class wage inflation has been high. I have enjoyed a good standard of living, and have supported a family, I feel sorry for those starting out.

However, wage inflation amongst a majority of a population, impacts on national inflation, which the government seek to keep low at this time and in the near future.

The skills gap, was really only about bringing down wages, and creating a demand-led system of apprenticeships and training, that does not require employers - no future skills gaps because people can be trained and assessed in colleges. The labour force can be supplied with as many operatives as want to join.

Add to this the fragmented nature of the uk work force - those self employed are only interested in themselves, so have failed to challenge the strategies put through by sector skills councils and awarding bodies - the self employed have no represntation to talk of, because those that profess to represent us, are happy to keep it the way it is (big firms are unaffected by lower working class wages, its what they want.

£6.25 per hour for workers is the only way Europe can function, which is what all the financial fuss is about - in Greece, hair dressers were on 60k a year for a 36 hour week, and able to take early retirement.

Given that self employed people have to pay insurance, accountants, banks, van hire, analysers, tools, holiday pay, training, licences, registrations, paper work etc. I would argue that this £6.25 an hour with a van, equates to about £15 an hour as self employed.

We also seem to forget that being self employed plumber or gas fitter, depends on advertising, surveying, landing work, paying for materials, doing the job to a satisfactory standard, getting paid, and meeting your overheads. Try taking time off, if you are a self employed company director (one man band) and you will be entitled to nothing, no sick pay, nothing. A one-man-band Ltd company has to pay its own sick pay, to a director that is sick.

Installers will be falling over themselves for £6.25 per hour.

This wage also equates to the qualification required to do the job - ACS and 40 days of work experience! - it would take longer to train someone to stack the shelves in Lidle.

 

[Guest123]

Captianpugwash, nothing furthers the cause of Scottish Independence more than English people bleating about how they subsidise Scotland. The UK treasury has plundered North Sea Oil revenues for years, and in a Nation where we are supposed to be the biggest oil producers in Europe, we have one of the highest fuel prices.
Scotland has a small population of 5.5 million people which is only a fraction of the population of London and we MORE than pay our way in this so called "United" Kingdom.
The Barnett formula is outadated. We have asked for a more fair and updated system and more important REAL powers to raise more of our own revenue, but sadly successive UK governments have refused this.
I can supply you with FACTS and REAL figures that have been verified by leading economists that can prove that Scotland actually pays more into the UK treasury than the bile spewed out by some uninformed people South of the Border that see what our government up here is achieving while the Tory/Lib Dem coalition blame everything on the previous administration and are doing very little that is constructive to improve the economy. We have record fuel prices, food prices, inflation is rising and most of our industry has very little confidence in either a short or long term future.
I'll take Alex anytime over Cammy and Cleggy. At least he has achieved a hell of a lot under restricted circumstances unlike those two. Independence will be good for both Scotland and England as we can move forward as equal partners sharing the same head of state and forging closer ties. At the very least it will stop people down there whinging about us Scots being subsidy junkies.
Finally the barnet formula was slashed this term, it's unfair, but the reluctance of the UK government to give us more control over making our own revenues is equally unfair.

 

[gornsgorns]

Over the last 25 years working class wage inflation has been high. I have enjoyed a good standard of living, and have supported a family, I feel sorry for those starting out.

However, wage inflation amongst a majority of a population, impacts on national inflation, which the government seek to keep low at this time and in the near future.

The skills gap, was really only about bringing down wages, and creating a demand-led system of apprenticeships and training, that does not require employers - no future skills gaps because people can be trained and assessed in colleges. The labour force can be supplied with as many operatives as want to join.

Add to this the fragmented nature of the uk work force - those self employed are only interested in themselves, so have failed to challenge the strategies put through by sector skills councils and awarding bodies - the self employed have no represntation to talk of, because those that profess to represent us, are happy to keep it the way it is (big firms are unaffected by lower working class wages, its what they want.

£6.25 per hour for workers is the only way Europe can function, which is what all the financial fuss is about - in Greece, hair dressers were on 60k a year for a 36 hour week, and able to take early retirement.

Given that self employed people have to pay insurance, accountants, banks, van hire, analysers, tools, holiday pay, training, licences, registrations, paper work etc. I would argue that this £6.25 an hour with a van, equates to about £15 an hour as self employed.

We also seem to forget that being self employed plumber or gas fitter, depends on advertising, surveying, landing work, paying for materials, doing the job to a satisfactory standard, getting paid, and meeting your overheads. Try taking time off, if you are a self employed company director (one man band) and you will be entitled to nothing, no sick pay, nothing. A one-man-band Ltd company has to pay its own sick pay, to a director that is sick.

Installers will be falling over themselves for £6.25 per hour.

This wage also equates to the qualification required to do the job - ACS and 40 days of work experience! - it would take longer to train someone to stack the shelves in Lidle.

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

 

[capitanpugwash]

I can supply you with FACTS and REAL figures that have been verified by leading economists that can prove that Scotland actually pays more into the UK treasury than the bile spewed out by some uninformed people South of the Border.

Try playing the ball and not the player. If you read my post again you will realise that I present the facts in a reasonable and unbiased way. You are factually incorrect with your claims and with an honours degree in economics I don't consider myself to be spewing bile as an uninformed southerner. Your sound bites are as unappetising as the dry sandwich from the BP garage this lunch.

For your information Denmark and Norway produce more crude oil than the UK, so again your REAL FACTS and REAL FIGURE lack some credibility. Let's stick to bathrooms and off politics on this forum.

You should have seen the sweet job I did of an ecoTEC 618 today! Niiiiiiiice.

 

[Guest123]

Capitanpugwash, I'll happily continue this debate elsewhere and refute much of your statement above, but not here as this is not the UK political forum.

Well done on the ecoTEC 618! The most exciting thing I did today was fitting a cheap plastic cistern....bloody horrible looking thing it was! LOL
Ah well, nice bathroom to fit this weekend.

 

[secret squirrel]

Don't want to sound political but calling Britian "Great" is a joke these days. Anyway check your atlas and we live in the United Kingdom, but I'm Scottish and come our referendum in a few years time, we'll hopefully be an independent nation.

Until we invade again and bring you back into the fold.....

 

[Guest123]

Until we invade again and bring you back into the fold.....

Ah but this time we'll be ready for you lot and you'll all get a doing! A cross border plumbers duel to the death.....
Plungers and drain rods at dawn.

 

[dontknowitall]

What? Aren't flamethrowers allowed?

 

[WaterTight]

I'll catapult 20 ft wide balls of fresh silicone. That should stop most people.

 

[dontknowitall]

dkia checks his stock levels of Sticks Like ...

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

I accept a bit of tongue in cheek over-the-topness with this, but don't loose sight of the 40 hour week situation. With the numbers already coming into the industry, and rising admin costs, it will be a quest initself to land 40 hours of work as self employed.

To achieve, 40 hours a week of continuous, productive labour requires a lot of work around the edges. Giving estimates, answering the phone, writing estimates, ordering materials, going on call-backs, guarantee work on boilers that you have not made, people not paying, people wanting something for nothing. I spent a good 20 year period of getting home and spending over an hour each night on the phone returning calls (good times) - all of these little things add up, when we consider that just to turn up as an employee - with a van supplied, and £6.25 an hour is not bad, given current prospects.

 

[samh]

£6.25 per hour is awful! I can work in screwfix for £6.50 an hour!

 

[CES]

Are you for real? How can £6.25 equate to £15.00 an hour self employed? If that were the case then that would mean your expenses are nearly £1600 a month if a full 40 hour week was worked. Your doing something wrong if your expenses are that much!

You are obviously unaware of company national insurance, business (public and employers liability), Corporation tax (if your ltd) accountants fees, banking fees (business accounts charge fees), van insurance, tools, safety gear, training costs, notification costs, gas safe membership. the list goes on, there are a lot of people out there with their hands out, (a lot of them trade "associations"). Then you have the potential for sickness (when you cant bring money in) holiday pay, pension provision etc.
It really annoys me when someone who knows bugger all about running a business bleats when i charge them £35 an hour. They wrongly assume that its going straight into my pocket and I always get the "that's £1400 a week!" comment because they automatically assume that we all have continous work, when in reality our hours are patchy at best. I cant remember the last time I had a full 40 hour week, oh yes I can.. it was when I was an employee and I didn't have all these expenses...
You get my drift?

 

[WaterTight]

Don't forget paperwork, getting materials and parts, typing up quotes, call-backs, last minute cancellations, postponments due to incomplete or incorrect suites / parts, calling round to find nobody is in, chasing payments, chasing pavements...oh no wait, that's Adele.

I tell you I wouldn't kick that Adele out of bed. Because I'd probably break a foot.

 

[fogarty]

LOL best joke I've heard this week, the weekend starts here

 

[Phil]

Jokes? I've got a good joke, its a pitty I cant tell it though or I will be banned. :veryangry2:

 

[nysk2008]

maybe tevev from man city is putting the feelers out, may need a new job soon - soz to all the city fans