Cis

[dmheat]

Hi all,

Basically I've got the hump.

Im a self employed sole trader, I contract for a large heating company, I do my own boiler swaps/repairs/services also.

As far as I am aware, I am not required to register for CIS as repairing, altering, or extending existing utilities and services does not constitute "system installation". The large company I work for have never mentioned CIS.

So I gets a call from a property maintenance company for an emergency out of hours call out. I spend a few hours out, and invoice accordingly. The invoice payment is now overdue so I chased it today.

What's your UTR and NI number they ask?

....erm what?....no thanks just pay me...

We can't, we have to deduct tax from labour charges through CIS, and if you're not CIS registered you need to provide us with an exemption form from the HMRC.

What the.......?????

Someone give me some advice please, are they having a laugh? I'm not CIS reg, I get an accountant to do my yearly self assessment, so let me deal with my own poxy tax???

Thanks

Dan

 

[REDSAW]

tell them your under your own company and tax, cough up or there will be penalty charges and you will see them in court with further costs. you have 5 days for money to be cleared through your bank.

is what i would say

 

[Chalked]

They are correct. Every self employed person in the building trade needs a utr number. If you pay tax you should have one.
they have a duty to hmrc to check your utr number and deduct or not accordingly.
If they don't, they can be held liable for your tax.

 

[dmheat]

They are correct. Every self employed person in the building trade needs a utr number. If you pay tax you should have one.
they have a duty to hmrc to check your utr number and deduct or not accordingly.
If they don't, they can be held liable for your tax.

But then how comes I'm a subcontractor for one of the biggest providers of heating maintenance in the country and they pay me what I invoice, and allow me to sort my own tax? Surely a multi million pound national know what they're doing compared to a pokey little property company?

 

[dmheat]

They are correct. Every self employed person in the building trade needs a utr number. If you pay tax you should have one.
they have a duty to hmrc to check your utr number and deduct or not accordingly.
If they don't, they can be held liable for your tax.

I have a UTR number as I'm self employed, but that's not the same as being registered for CIS

 

[kris]

But then how comes I'm a subcontractor for one of the biggest providers of heating maintenance in the country and they pay me what I invoice, and allow me to sort my own tax? Surely a multi million pound national know what they're doing compared to a pokey little property company?

I thought it was law if you suby to a company then it's there responsibility to take tax off your payment ,,

 

[REDSAW]

i pay my own tax's not for anyone else to fiddle with and if the job was done on a price then whats the labour cost any of their business?!

 

[dmheat]

Nooooope! Depends what work is undertaken fella as far as I can see. I'm service and repair, not installation, and I don't work on new builds ie first/second fixing etc. CIS is for "construction" operatives, this would cover new, and full installations, for a contractor. I had a link on the hmrc website somewhere let me dig it out

 

[REDSAW]

Nooooope! Depends what work is undertaken fella as far as I can see. I'm service and repair, not installation, and I don't work on new builds ie first/second fixing etc. CIS is for "construction" operatives, this would cover new, and full installations, for a contractor. I had a link on the hmrc website somewhere let me dig it out

i second that.
i also work for a national doing service repair, i invoice-they pay. simple

 

[dmheat]

Check this out lads

CISR14090 - The Scheme: construction operations: building service systems

 

[Chalked]

Check this out lads

CISR14090 - The Scheme: construction operations: building service systems

learn something new new every day!

looks like replacement or repair is exempt.

 

[kris]

I pay my own tax aswell but my accountant told me that if i subby to any company then they by law must tax me on that earnings ( only the work i subby on, )

 

[dmheat]

I pay my own tax aswell but my accountant told me that if i subby to any company then they by law must tax me on that earnings ( only the work i subby on, )

See link above, complete installations from scratch for a contractor yes....repair/alteration/extension/upgrade etc of system does not come under CIS whoever you're doing the work for.

 

[Ermintrude]

Normally invoice as a company working for a company and get paid. Labour only lads CIS

 

[AWheating]

i invoice via cis or not, dependant on the job and what the person paying me wants to do. either way im not to fussed.

 

[dmheat]

That's how you guessed 🙂

 

[Masood]

I pay my own tax aswell but my accountant told me that if i subby to any company then they by law must tax me on that earnings ( only the work i subby on, )

That's what I got told as well...

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

If you meet certain criteria you can get paid gross under CIS anyway

 

[dmheat]

Repair of systems
The legislation regarding building service systems only refers to their installation. Therefore, repairs to any of these systems are outside the scope of CIS. Soldering a leaking pipe or patching a leaking boiler, replacing a defective tap, rewiring a single defective circuit, replacing a burned-out ventilation fan motor, replacing a broken wash basin, fixing a leaking radiator or replacing standard radiator valves with thermostatic valves, are all plainly repairs to a part of the overall building system.


Even where the repaired/replaced item may represent a significant component part of the overall system, such as a central heating boiler, its replacement does not constitute ‘the installation of a system of heating’ and therefore will not fall within CIS.

From the HMRC website. I don't do full installs for contractors so nothing I do comes under it as far as I can ascertain.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Point this out to them

 

[dmheat]

I emailed the link and that extract to them, just got a reply, I should be receiving payment in full 🙂